Mandarin Training Center, National Taiwan Normal University

[etm001]

 

 

You sound like me, only, as I'm trying to adopt a more minimalist lifestyle, I'm not buying books just now and am trying hard to read and study up the ones

lol I tell myself not to buy more books, but I can't help it. This is in part because outside of TW it's hard to find (a good selection) of books written in traditional Chinese. (In theory you could buy them online in Taiwan and have them shipped abroad, but that gets expensive). I don't mind ebooks due to their portability, but Taiwan doesn't seem to have much of an ebook marketplace.

 

In regards to minimalism - I've been toying with the idea of scanning all my books (a major undertaking), which in theory is quite minimalistic(!) and allows for easy travel too, but it's hard to bring myself to destroy them (you have to cut the bindings off in order to scan them at any reasonably fast speed).

[Elizabeth_rb]

Yup, I sympathise on all counts!

 

I'm only scanning certain things.  The others I intend to finish with as they are (i.e in book form) and then pass them on in usable condition to someone else.  It'll take many years, but I don't have to chuck out all my stuff in one go.

 

Add oil, comrade

[xh207hi]

Guys, I'm planning to apply for a government scholarship to attend MTC for a language course but I was wondering if any of you heard about (or experienced) applying for university scholarship this time, for further degree studies, while on the course? I don't necessarily mean Chinese language studies, I mean any degree on said university. Is it even possible...?

I've read that applying for scholarship while being on a scholarship is forbidden, but maybe this applies only for gov->gov scholarship, and not necessarily gov->uni one...? Hah, I'm looking for some suggestions what shall I do

The reason I'm asking about it here is because you might have first-hand info on NTNU'spolicy towards foreign students and scholarships from the perspective of language course attendants.

[etm001]

 

 

I was wondering if any of you heard about (or experienced) applying for university scholarship this time, for further degree studies, while on the course?

I'm not familiar with scholarships offered by the university itself. I do know someone that received an MA from NTNU (2 year scholarship), but I believe it was a government scholarship. Although his instruction was entirely in English, I believe he attended the MTC when he first started his studies (I'm not sure if that was optional or required, or whether the MTC tuition was covered by the scholarship - it might have been).

 

I'm assuming you've looked at this NTNU scholarship page, which outlines undergraduate/graduate scholarships directly from the university. The stipend amounts are paltry - just $10,000/month for the undergraduate scholarships (12 month limit), which is not enough to live on in Taipei. You also you cannot receive scholarships from any other organizations in Taiwan while receiving an NTNU scholarship.

 

Now that I think about it, my friend who received the MA was receiving $25,000/month, which leads me to believe he had a government scholarship.

[xh207hi]

^ What you say about your friend attending MTC course before his studies is interesting, because I remember seeing an info somewhere on the NTNU site about additional "preparation" year of language course before the proper degree. It was an outdated info so I even wrote an email to inquire about it, but never got the answer (I start wondering if I didn't make some silly mistake in address, it stucks me). But the preparatory course even before English-language studies...? Interesting.

 

Oh, thank you for pointing out the difference in amount of scholarships. It looks rather bothering, in terms of my masterplan. I'd need to think further about it then...

[xh207hi]

Guys, anybody would like to share their experience with MTC this year? I'm considering this school, but I'm quite advanced (5 years) and I still think about NTU's CLD and ICLP. What I am most afraid of is that I'd be too much in the English speaking environment – I mean, it's obvious only foreigners go to language schools, but if there is any difference in the language environment in these schools (mmm, for example the amount of local students in the neighbourhood or existence of any integration events so that we do not only stay within the 老外 community), I'd be happy to hear your opinions.

[sanvitale]

Hopefully people are still checking in on this thread! 

 

First of all just want to say thanks to OneEye and all of the commenters, this has been a great read and a huge help!

 

I'm thinking about studying at MTC NTNU either at the end of this year or beggining of next. Just wondering if any one has any insight as to what its like for a near complete beginner studying mandarin at MTC. I took two semesters in college and a couple small courses outside of school, but i have lost most of that as it goes so quickly when you are not using it. So at this point, i essentially need to start over, especially since i studied simplified characters so any writing i retained is useless in taiwan i'm assuming. I'm definitely planning on doing a lot of studying on my own and maybe taking a few classes in the meantime, but i will still be pretty much a complete noob, so just wondering if any one can share their experience as a beginner.

 

Thanks!

[etm001]

 

 

 I'm considering this school, but I'm quite advanced (5 years) and I still think about NTU's CLD and ICLP. 

I'm not sure going to MTC, CLD, or ICLP is worth it if you are an advanced student. They are not going to teach you anything that you can't learn on your own. The only benefit is that you'd be in a Chinese speaking classroom 2-3 hours a day (perhaps a bit more for ICLP). If it were me, assuming I lived in a non-Chinese speaking country and had 3-4 months free, I'd just move to Taiwan/China, follow my own study plan, and make sure I spend significant time interacting in the local environment. Or hire a local tutor (one credentialied in teaching Chinese as a foreign language) and/or consider private tutoring at a school like TLI.

 

 

What I am most afraid of is that I'd be too much in the English speaking environment – I mean, it's obvious only foreigners go to language schools, but if there is any difference in the language environment in these schools (mmm, for example the amount of local students in the neighbourhood or existence of any integration events so that we do not only stay within the 老外 community), I'd be happy to hear your opinions.

 

There is no difference between any of these schools in terms of the student population (all non-native Chinese speakers). They are all located in Taipei which has a moderately sized ex-pat population, and a moderate number of natives who speak English to varying degrees of proficiency. 

 

 

local students in the neighbourhood or existence of any integration events so that we do not only stay within the 老外 community)

Foreign language students tend to be segregated in a separate building away from local university students. There is little interaction between them and the native student population - you have to actively seek out friendships with locals and actively find activities aimed at local students.

 

Also, in Taiwan 外國人 is common - you rarely hear 老外.

[etm001]

 

 

Just wondering if any one has any insight as to what its like for a near complete beginner studying mandarin at MTC.

MTC is great for beginners. They do a good job instilling the fundamentals of the language. I think of my education at MTC as a very solid foundation/framework upon which I've built my knowledge of Mandarin.

 

The biggest criticisms of MTC (as noted somewhere in this long, long thread, I'm guessing) are:

• Outdated textbooks: actually the fundamentals of the PAVC textbooks were good, but they were showing their agin in terms of layout and vocabulary (written before the Internet, mobile phones, etc.) Regardless, the MTC wrote a new series of textbooks which are in use at the school now and from what I've seen they are solid.
• Too focused on reading/writing: if you don't want to learn how to read and write Mandarin, do not go to the MTC. And by "write" I mean not only learning how to write characters using a pen/pencil, but writing essays, reports, providing short written answers on tests, etc. I'm personally very happy that I learned read/writing/speaking simultaneously, and in the long run the extra up front effort pays off handsomely.
• Outdated teaching techniques: I addressed this point somewhere earlier in this thread. There's nothing high tech or particularly innovative about how Mandarin is taught at the MTC. That said, a) I've yet to hear of a school in Taiwan or mainland China that is "innovative" - the vast majority seem to follow the same instructional mold, and b) "high tech" and "innovative" don't necessarily lead to better learning outcomes. Honestly, sometimes you just have to grind through vocabulary lists, practice writing characters over and over, etc. before things start to sink it. 
• Many students are there to party, have fun, etc.: overblown and not true for the vast majority of students. There might be an up-tick of these students in the summer session. I spent more time at the MTC than 95% of MTC students, and I can say the vast majority of my peers were conscientious and took their studies seriously.
• Too many ex-pats / English speakers in Taipei: it's entirely up to you as to how much (or how little) you involve yourself with the ex-pat community. And while yes there are many English speakers in Taipei, it's nothing, nothing like what you'd find in many European countries/capitals (i.e., cities where it seems like everyone speaks amazingly good English, etc.)

I think if you've read the entirety of this thread you should have a fairly balanced set of expectations in regards to the MTC. It's not perfect and there are things that could be improved. But the MTC provides a very solid Mandarin education if you are a willing and dedicated student.

[Naphta]

I've read this thread thoroughly and I think there is a great amount of useful information. Thanks a lot for all your contributions!

 

I'll be in Taipei for two months this summer and I'm going to apply to the eight weeks Summer Session. If someone wants to share some impressions of the Summer Session (not the "Summer Term") or just if you've heard other people say good or bad things about this program, I would be more than thankful.

 

Actually, I'm hesitating a lot between the intensive and the regular classes. I'm myself a motivated and independent student and I've just finished studying the Practical Audiovisual Chinese Book 3 with my private teacher, so hopefully they won't put me in a beginners class. I would choose the intensive class to be sure the other students are motivated and hard working as well. But I'll be doing other things than learning Mandarin in Taipei, and the timetable of the intensive class isn't really optimal for me. The regular class, however, has a much more flexible schedule and I could either choose to go early in the morning or in the evening. My main concern is that other students taking the regular class may not be as motivated as I wish, because of the summer holidays atmosphere.

[Elizabeth_rb]

You'll be fine - they won't put you in a beginners' class and you can change classes the first week if it doesn't suit you.

[tsp_uk]

Hi all!  

 

I was wondering if you could share some insight/advice how you managed to find your accommodation?

 

Many thanks!

[etm001]

 

 

I was wondering if you could share some insight/advice how you managed to find your accommodation?

Facebook is the best resource. There are three FB groups you can try:

• https://www.facebook.com/groups/Taiwanapartmentsandroommates
• https://www.facebook.com/groups/taipei.taiwan.apartment.rentals
• https://www.facebook.com/groups/RentalApartments

The first group is probably your best bet. Note: no one will commit to renting an apartment to you (or having you as a roommate) until you are actually in Taiwan. I suggest you couchsurf or stay at a hostel during your first week in Taiwan while you find a place to live. 

[Taiwan_Fox]

Hey everyone!

 

Because I found OneEye and everyone else's NTNU advice so useful before coming to NTNU (and I know I'm not the only one, since this thread is linked all over the place), I decided to create an account and use this thread to give my own thoughts about 師大 from an Autumn 2018 perspective. 

 

A little bit about me

 

I've been in Taiwan for two years, in fact Friday will be my two year anniversary! I spent the last two years teaching English in Toufen down the west coast (between Hsinchu and Miaoli, for the vast majority of you that have never heard of it) but I moved to Taipei a couple of weeks ago to study Chinese at NTNU. I spent the second year in Toufen driving up to Tsing Hua in Hsinchu every Tuesday and Thursday morning for Chinese class, but I wanted something more intense. My teacher at Tsing Hua advised me to go to NTNU, so here I am. 

 

My Chinese Level

 

A quick word on my Chinese level. I arrived two years ago with nothing, and I started at Tsing Hua a year later with still next-to-nothing. I'm not amazing at self-studying - I learn best in a classroom and doing the homework and finding ways to practice speaking as much as possible. During my year at Tsing Hua, I finished the first 'Course in Contemporary Chinese' book so I can probably read and write 500 or so characters. My speaking is okay although I still struggle with the tones, and my listening is pretty poor. I find listening the hardest by far and I am doing my best to listen to as much as possible. I originally learned bopomofo on my own alongside pinyin, and I would highly recommend that to familiarise yourself with the sounds. If you don't learn bopomofo then I think it's hardest to get out of the English mindset. 

 

Applying to NTNU

 

I was already in Taiwan so I don't think I could've applied for any of the usual scholarships. I did however apply for the internal MTC scholarship, but I was turned down. I guess it doesn't help that I was already in the country and coming anyway. The application process for me was very straightforward and fast since all the information is available on their website and I was already in the country. I was rejected for the scholarship but of course was still invited to enroll at the university. They sent me a letter with all the information I needed.

 

Registration

 

Although registration day was last week, I'm still not sure if I'll be doing the regular course (2 hours a day) or intensive course (3 hours a day.) I'd like to do intensive as I'd like to learn as fast as possible, but I can only study in the morning due to work and their morning slot is reserved for continuing students, aka 'non beginners.' Now while I'm not a beginner, I'm obviously not an NTNU student. If I can't do that intensive course then I'll do the regular 2 hour morning course. I'll find out if I can do the intensive course sometime over the next week.

 

Registration is still very similar to what other posters have described. I turned up in the afternoon, waited a bit, was guided through the application process and then did a placement test. The teacher was very nice and spoke in clear Chinese. I guess my level is pretty simple - the start of the second textbook. I then filled in some details and collected my brand new student card. Everything was simple and completed in less than an hour.

 

Accommodation

 

My method for finding accommodation won't apply to everyone because I was already here, but I'll write about it anyway. I simply joined all the Facebook groups, replied to loads of posts and visited lots of places until I found one I liked - a shared flat near Taipower Building MRT. Lots of places looked very different in real life compared to the pictures - particularly in terms of size. I've seen suggestions that you should stay at a hostel/hotel when you arrive and then look for an apartment when you're here. I think this is a good idea because, as I said, places look very different from the pictures. 

 

-----------------------------------------------------

 

Aaaand that's where we are now. I plan to keep this thread updated with my own opinions on the school, classes and teaching. I - along with probably everybody else reading this thread - have heard very mixed views about the teachers at NTNU. While studying at Tsing Hua, my usual teacher was excellent and kept the class engaged in what seemed a fairly effortless way. She somehow managed to motivate everyone to do the homework and put in extra effort without looking like she was trying too hard. On the other hand, she was sick for a few weeks in the middle of the first term and we had a substitute teacher. She was most certainly NOT excellent and you could see the motivation and spirit level drop around the classroom. She spent a lot of time getting us to memorise dialogues and she didn't explain things well. Apparently she's an experienced teacher too. It just shows that you get good and bad teachers everywhere.

 

加油.

 

 

[mungouk]

Hey @Taiwan_Fox, thanks for your detailed response, and for signing up to the forums to post it!  

Looking forward to hearing more about your reflections on studying in Taiwan.

 

(To be clear, this is National Tsing Hua University in Hsinchu City, Taiwan, as opposed to Tsinghua in Beijing, right?)

 

 

 

 

[sekkar]

4 hours ago, Taiwan_Fox said:

Aaaand that's where we are now. I plan to keep this thread updated with my own opinions on the school, classes and teaching. I - along with probably everybody else reading this thread - have heard very mixed views about the teachers at NTNU.

All the 4 teacher I had (2017) were excellent, but I might just have been lucky of course. It seemed to me that most people I talked to liked their teacher.

 

4 hours ago, Taiwan_Fox said:

I'd like to do intensive as I'd like to learn as fast as possible, but I can only study in the morning due to work and their morning slot is reserved for continuing students, aka 'non beginners.' Now while I'm not a beginner, I'm obviously not an NTNU student. If I can't do that intensive course then I'll do the regular 2 hour morning course. I'll find out if I can do the intensive course sometime over the next week.

I recommend doing intensive, just the fact that you will be in a class with students that take their studies seriously is reason enough.  Didnt know that the morning slot was restricted to continuing students, seems like a strange rule.

 

If you got any questions feel free to ask, I did book 1-5 intensive at MTC last year.

[Taiwan_Fox]

11 hours ago, mungouk said:

Hey @Taiwan_Fox, thanks for your detailed response, and for signing up to the forums to post it!  

Looking forward to hearing more about your reflections on studying in Taiwan.

 

(To be clear, this is National Tsing Hua University in Hsinchu City, Taiwan, as opposed to Tsinghua in Beijing, right?)

 

Of course - it'd be a very long commute from Toufen otherwise ?

 

9 hours ago, sekkar said:

All the 4 teacher I had (2017) were excellent, but I might just have been lucky of course. It seemed to me that most people I talked to liked their teacher.

 

 

9 hours ago, sekkar said:

I recommend doing intensive, just the fact that you will be in a class with students that take their studies seriously is reason enough.  Didnt know that the morning slot was restricted to continuing students, seems like a strange rule.

 

If you got any questions feel free to ask, I did book 1-5 intensive at MTC last year.

 

That's good news, and yes the 10-1 slot is for continuing students - the same for the 10-12 slot for the regular classes. I guess maybe they don't start from the beginning of book 1 in those classes so you can't be a beginner, but it does then rule out people who have studied elsewhere.

[Taiwan_Fox]

So I've just finished my first "week" (only Tuesday-Friday) and I thought I'd drop in to give my first updates. First, there was an orientation day on Monday which was pretty useful, giving you all the information you need about visas, classes, culture classes, credited classes etc etc. Then we were put into groups separated by first language and taken around the important rooms in the building, like the library, and then taken up to the 7th floor to buy textbooks (which are reasonable, at only 1400nt for the main textbook, main workbook and the character book [character book is optional but I think it's useful.] From my experience, you'd be lucky if that 1400nt covered one book from a degree course.) 

 

Then Tuesday brought the first class. As I'd hoped, I've been put into the intensive course, from 10.20-1.10. There are eight other students in my class - a brother and sister from Indonesia, a fellow Brit, a Dane, a Canadian, a Japanese,  an American and a Thai, so a right mixture. Even though we're all starting on the same book it's a very mixed level, some with very little conversational ability but can read and write, others who speak well (and say 那個 several times per sentence.) THEORETICALLY I'm able to change classes, but our teacher has told us that all the classes are full (aka 9 students each.) This has created a gridlock whereby nobody can change classes, because that would take the class number up to 10, which isn't allowed. We've had several students come to our classroom wanting to change, but they can't.

 

So far, in the four days of class, we've covered the first chapter in the Course in Contemporary Chinese textbook.  Day 1: Introductions. Day 2: 聽寫 on the first half of Chapter 1's characters and review from first textbook, plus discussing Chapter 1's vocabulary. Day 3: 聽寫 on second half of the chapter's characters and more review, plus discussing all the chapter's grammar points. Day 4: Review of grammar, plus test. This test was pretty intense, with four A4 pages with lots of writing in a short space of time. There was listening comprehension with multiple choice answers, writing sentences, and a fill-in-the-blanks exercise to show you know the meaning of that chapter's vocabulary. I found it pretty difficult, but the Indonesian next to me seemed to blast through it even though he barely strings a sentence together in class. I guess that shows the difference between speaking ability and reading/writing. Now I have to learn Chapter 2's vocabulary over the weekend, ready to start the next chapter on Monday. The vast majority of the homework was after day 3, where we had to do the workbook Chapter 1 and fill in the textbook's questions. I'll try and do some of this earlier next week. 

 

As for my teacher, she's good. She's funny, bubbly, full of energy and talks and talks and talks in Chinese. She spends a lot of time discussing the vocabulary, which I think is good as it means it's covered thoroughly even though after three days we're already moving onto the next chapter. Pretty much all of what we did this week has sunk in, although it wasn't the most challenging chapter. She does however like to go around the room and ask each student the same question about something, hoping to elicit different answers. While I think it's useful to have everyone practicing, it does get a little dull listening to my classmates struggle to answer questions. This, I would argue, is the main problem with classroom-based language learning. My previous teacher at Tsing Hua used to only ask a few students and then move on. She spoke on the first day about not giving us too much homework - this differs from teacher to teacher. I'm also working so the amount of homework is fine for me - maybe other students on scholarships for example would prefer more. Also, there's a million other ways to study Chinese in your free time if you want more work outside of class. I think more pair work within the classroom would be beneficial too - I haven't actually spent that much time speaking this week, rather listening to the teacher. I like listening to her as my listening isn't great and it's all good practice, but yes I feel she could do more to get us speaking more. So far she's hasn't done any rote learning or repeat-after-me work, which is good as I find it incredibly tedious. She also hasn't stuck to the book. She prefers to teach the material through teaching and then almost uses the book as an afterthought. This is good as the book doesn't really explain much, and she's skipped the stuff she doesn't think is useful, like the 'negative' or 'interrogative' examples. Also, Each day she's come in with supplementary material to do in class, like dialogue exercises, which is very useful. 

 

That's about all I have to report so far. Don't take this class unless you're willing to learn to write and write a lot. That's fine for me but I can see how others may disagree. It's clear that I'm going to learn a lot this semester as long as I keep working hard - I can imagine with the speed of the chapters it's very easy to fall behind if you have a few days off for whatever reason. 

 

If you have any questions about the course or university then let me know, I'm more than happy to help!

 

Jon

[CowTemplar]

So I've read through many threads and something I find underdiscussed are clubs, sports, and other sorts of recreational activities available for language students. Are these available? Are they easily joinable? Specifically this comment:

 

Quote

Foreign language students tend to be segregated in a separate building away from local university students. There is little interaction between them and the native student population - you have to actively seek out friendships with locals and actively find activities aimed at local students.

 

kind of worries me because if I'm going to be learning as a student in another country, one of the most important things is being able to interact with local students and perhaps the easiest way to do so is through activities (课外活动). I absolutely love to play soccer and tennis and any school that has an active club for those would probably boost it by 2x appeal in my eyes.

 

Asides from that, this thread has really been fantastic with info and has probably swayed me into doing MTC at NTNU instead of other programs like ICLP and CLD. Thanks to OneEye, etm, and TaiwanFox for posting long paragraphs of your experiences at MTC; believe me when I say I lap up those posts like candy every time I see one as it really helps me make an informed decision on which program to pick.

[Nnedi Ugo]

@Taiwan_Fox How neat! I am studying here as well. Just started 2 weeks ago and I am under the Huayu Enrichment Scholarship. Classes are going so well! I started on Book 1 chapter 11. I love the classes here so far! Way better than when I studied Chinese in Shanghai ?