你明天去不去 or 你明天去吗?

[fij]

Hello,

Which of the above two is correct? Can you point me to a chapter in a grammar book?

Thanks

[roddy]

Why do you think one is incorrect?

[feng]

The following four structures are all valid. However because its future tense I believe you need to add a 要 to the sentence.

• 你明天（要）去不去
  
• 你明天（要）去吗
  
• 明天你（要）去不去
  
• 明天你（要）去吗
  

I would recommend at a minimum, the excellent "Modern mandarin chinese grammar"

http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/0415700108

However if possible I would recommend at least borrowing PAVC and NPCR books as well, and cross referencing the grammar points between all three books. The grammar is explained and demonstrated differently in each book, going through all three should be enough to help solidify it for you.

I actually cross reference with some other books as well.

[skylee]

However because its future tense I believe you need to add a 要 to the sentence.

This is not necessary. And in the case of 去不去, your structure is not correct. It would be all right to say 明天你要不要去, but the meaning can be different (you could interpret it as either "do you want to go" or "do you have to go".)

[feng]

Yes, thanks! I agree, there appear to be some subtle differences in meaning here which allude me (:

[fij]

Are there cases when only the "verb不verb" structure is correct or only the "verb吗" structure is correct?

Thanks

[adrianlondon]

I was told to use the verb-not-verb style if the question was likely to be a long one, so the person you're talking to knows to listen properly as they're gonna have to answer something

[tooironic]

Both are correct.

There is no tense in Chinese, let alone future tense.

[feng]

Huh！？！？ No tense in chinese?

http://howtolearnchineseonline.com/tag/chinese-past-tense

http://www.unilang.org/wiki/index.php/Expressing_Past/Present/Future_in_Mandarin_Chinese

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_verbs

The simplest way of expressing past tense is to use adverbs such as "yesterday." For example: "zuótiān wǒ chī jī" (昨天我吃鸡, literally: yesterday I eat chicken) is equal to saying "Yesterday I ate chicken". Another way of expressing past tense is to use the aspect particles "guò" (过) or "le" (了) , which cannot stand by themselves but can express completed actions when placed after verbs. The distinction between these and other particles can be difficult for learners to grasp. Past tense in Chinese can also be emphasized by surrounding the verb and direct object with the words "shì"-"de" (是-的). Here the time is sufficient to express the past tense but the shi...de pattern emphasizes for purpose. For example "wǒ shì zuótiān chī jī de" (我是昨天吃鸡的). This phrasing emphasizes the time in which the action took place more than the action itself.

[OneEye]

Those links are inaccurate. Chinese has aspect, not tense.

[feng]

Those links are inaccurate. Chinese has aspect, not tense.

I don't know what aspect is, I have never heard of such a concept. I only know what my chinese teacher, wikipedia and other books I have read on the matter say.

I hope you can forgive me that I would trust these things over a stranger on the internet (:

[roddy]

If you want to get grammatical about it, Chinese doesn't have tense as tense is the form of a verb which indicates when it happens. see, saw, do, did. Chinese verbs don't change like that. Doesn't mean it doesn't have ways of talking about the past, but they are not technically tenses.

Similarly English has no true future tense - we get by with modal verbs (I will cancel out those negative marks after posting this, as it's Christmas) or other verb forms (I am going to go to bed shortly).

[OneEye]

Whatever floats your boat. But they are wrong. Many people, I've found, like to talk about tense in Chinese because they feel that since it's a more familiar concept to English speakers, it will therefore simplify things compared to trying to explain aspect. I think it explains why so many people have problems with 了, for example.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammatical_aspect#Aspect_vs._tense

[feng]

Many people, I've found, like to talk about tense in Chinese because they feel that since it's a more familiar concept to English speakers, it will therefore simplify things compared to trying to explain aspect. I think it explains why so many people have problems with 了, for example.

Thats a much more useful post than just "There is no tense".

The reason for my such strong reaction is simple. Fair enough there may be some technical distinction between the concept of a "tense" and an "aspect", however I have never come across a student or teacher of chinese who makes such a distinction. It seems that learners and teachers of chinese use the word "tense" and "aspect" interchangeably, I am reasonably sure there is nothing anyone can do to stop this. In the context of learning chinese it may be better to just accept that the how the word "tense" is used. (:

[imron]

I only know what my chinese teacher, wikipedia and other books I have read on the matter say.

I hope you can forgive me that I would trust these things over a stranger on the internet (:

Slightly amusing that you take one stranger's word on the internet over another's

I don't know what aspect is,

If you looked it up you might be able to understand where OneEye and tooironic are coming from. Discussion on whether Chinese has tense or not is not going to be very productive if at a minimum you don't try to understand the vocabularly typically used when discussing that topic, and will only lead to misunderstandings between what you say, what other people say, and what each of you think the other is saying.

[feng]

Don't get me wrong, I am certainly grateful to now be aware of the distinction. I had looked it up, I do now understand where they are coming from. The problem was the initial quite unhelpful post:

There is no tense in Chinese, let alone future tense.

If not even a typical/average chinese teacher, student, wikipedia article, and/or textbook knows about the distinction? How can anyone except a limited subset of "intellectuals" be expected to discern what this initial post means?

[imron]

I would think most good text books and teachers would know about the distinction and point it out, however students may not always realise what a textbook/teacher means when they make the distinction. For example, with the wikipedia segment you quoted above, to me, it doesn't say that Chinese has past tense, but rather, to express the concept of past tense Chinese uses things like aspect particles and other constructs.

Anyway, I agree that the other post would have been more helpful if it had provided some more information.

[feng]

I am now going to have to go back through my text books and check (:

[roddy]

How can anyone except a limited subset of "intellectuals" be expected to discern what this initial post means?

Well, if you didn't understand it, and a quick Google of 'does Chinese have tense' doesn't turn up any hints (bet it does) then asking politely would seem one possible method.

[feng]

Well, if you didn't understand it, and a quick Google of 'does Chinese have tense' doesn't turn up any hints (bet it does) then asking politely would seem one possible method.

I did google it, found some links (posted above) and I was told the links were wrong or unclear (: