Degree Studies vs Language Programme

[Loki]

Hi everyone,

sorry in advance if my question seems repetitive, but frankly I didn`t make the effort to search through the forums 100%.

Here`s my story. I`m going to major in Chinese Language and Culture next spring. After that, I initially planned to pursue my postgraduate in China, studying Contemporary Chinese Studies or something relevant while at the same time trying to develop my language skills to a level decent enough.

After consulting with a friend of mine who has lived in China, however, I`ve been thinking it over. What he`s basically saying is that if you want a good quality degree, China isn`t the place to go to in the first place. Lack of critical thought, outdated teaching methods etc etc. So I`ve been advised to go to China just to learn the language for 1 or 2 years max, and then return and enrol in some European university with a decent Asian/Chinese department - such as Lund or Leiden - to get the degree.

What do you ppl think about it? I`d say right now my Mandarin proficieny is somewhere between HSK levels 3 and 4, so there`s a looong way to go. On the other hand, I don`t want to be the "translator" type; when it comes to career plans related to China and Chinese, my main fields of interests are journalism and policy consulting.

Should I stick to my original plan or listen to my friend?

[rezaf]

Lack of critical thought, outdated teaching methods etc etc.

This is very true and among those westerners who are studying for a degree in China I haven't seen anyone who is satisfied with this system but having said that I believe one of the main reasons that they never mention is that almost all the westerners who enroll at Chinese universities do not have the necessary Chinese skills to follow the classes like the Chinese students.

[Brandon263]

I think it all depends on what the end goal of doing your degree is. If you plan to work as a consultant or journalist for a foreign (outside China) company or news agency, then you should definitely do the Chinese studies degree. The issues that you'll cover as a foreign journalist are more likely to be similar to the issues most foreign scholars of China do their research on.

If you want to enroll in a European university, I would say that Oxford is probably a better choice than Lund or Leiden. Oxford has more than 40 scholars working on China, and generally is thought of as the best place to study/research China outside the US and Asia.

If you want to understand Chinese journalism from a Chinese viewpoint, however, then you'd obviously want to study in China. Advantages are a deeper understanding of the cultural and political bases of the Chinese media system and your Chinese may improve more quickly than it would in an English (or other language) speaking environment.

Disadvantages are that your degree may not be as useful outside China (or inside China, for that matter) as a degree from a reputable university in Europe or the US. The knowledge that you gain is likely to be a more accurate representation of China (especially if you're doing journalism), however.

If you enrol in Fudan, Tsinghua or Renmin for your journalism degree, you'll get a good quality degree.

Hope that helps

"I haven't seen anyone who is satisfied with this system but having said that I believe one of the main reasons that they never mention is that almost all the westerners who enroll at Chinese universities do not have the necessary Chinese skills to follow the classes like the Chinese students."

I don't know about this. Most of the people I know are excited about learning in China, and have generally good language skills. I would say that satisfaction with the system depends on what program you're doing and what university you're doing it at.

[rezaf]

I don't know about this. Most of the people I know are excited about learning in China, and have generally good language skills.

My experience is indeed very limited. I have just seen TCM students plus a few history and language(as major) students. As for good language skills, I think it depends on what your standards are. Do you know many people who can comfortably write academic papers(probably 3000~5000 characters) in a few days also memorize and read tons of textbooks at the speed of Chinese students?

[Brandon263]

As for good language skills, I think it depends on what your standards are.

Many of the people I know are social science postgraduate students whose reading, listening and speaking skills are sufficient for them to contribute to class/conference discussions. They do write academic papers, though I doubt the process is "comfortable".

[Angelina]

I'm in a similar situation. I'm already in China doing a non-degree language program. I came at the beginning of this semester and will stay for the next one. When I came here, my Chinese was pretty poor, so I would probably learn 2000 words max at the end of the course.

I'm thinking to apply for a postgraduate program where the language of instruction is English and work on my Chinese simultaneously. They have programs like that at Fudan and Renmin. My field of research is History/Literature/Culture. I have a degree in English Language and Literature, but right now I'm more interested in Chinese history since I cannot read poems in Chinese. My other option is to study the language one more year and then apply for a regular program, taught in Chinese. I've also heard about the program offered by Lund. It seems to have more depth than those offered by Fudan and Renmin. I'm also looking for a scholarship, which makes things much more complicated and the deadlines shorter.

Unless the postgraduate programs offered in English turn out to be a joke, I recommend you to do choose one of them. Language programs are excellent for beginners, people who are preparing for a degree course taught in Chinese and the translators. You might be a little bit bored.

[Loki]

Thanks for all the replies, it`s been really helpful.

@Brandon263 - yeah, Oxford would be the best choice I guess. The thing is though I will not graduate with honors of any kind, so it`d be highly unlikely for me to get in even if I tried.

Angelina - same here with the scholarships. I`m thinking about applying for both CSC and Confucius Institute scholarships, the latter being only for language studies of course.

[jono1001]

I think you need to decide what you really want to do with your Chinese langauge skills. Most career advisors will advise that having high skills in language alone will not be beneficial. High skills in language and another specialist field of study may be more use to you in the future.

Perhaps in the future you can pursue a degree in Jornalism and or Policy Consulting as well as having high profiency in Chinese language. If you are motivated there is no reason why you can not achieve both.

[Loki]

Perhaps in the future you can pursue a degree in Jornalism and or Policy Consulting as well as having high profiency in Chinese language. If you are motivated there is no reason why you can not achieve both.

That`s the ideal I strive for, yes. The only remaining question is whether to pursue the degree in China right away (with benefits of more language practice, knowing the local situation more closely and building guanxi) or later in Europe (probably better in the eyes of potential employers).

[rezaf]

As I mentioned before as a TCM student I’m not very familiar with other majors and their language requirements but if your Mandarin proficiency is somewhere between new HSK level 3 and 4, then I guess it would be difficult for you to study for a real degree at a Chinese university unless that course is especially simplified and tailored for foreigners. If I were you I would focus on learning Chinese for a year or two (personally I prefer self-study) and then would pursue a degree in China.

[hutudekongfuzi]

The only remaining question is whether to pursue the degree in China right away (with benefits of more language practice, knowing the local situation more closely and building guanxi) or later in Europe (probably better in the eyes of potential employers).

I'm curious, if the end goal is to work in those sectors within China, wouldn't a postgraduate degree from a prestigious Chinese university be better than a foreign one?

Granted, this changes as soon as one wants to work outside of China.

[OneEye]

Either way, once you finish your undergrad degree, I recommend spending 1-2 years in China as a language student before doing your master's. Whether you return to Europe for your graduate degree or you do it in China, you're going to need some really high-level Chinese skills in order to succeed. Your BA will not leave you with such skills.

[hutudekongfuzi]

OneEye is right if you are planning on studying a degree taught entirely in Chinese, however, 人大 and 北师大 both offer Masters in Contemporary Chinese Studies that are taught in English with Chinese language studies as a mandatory component. You would be quite prepared to start immediately after graduating with a BA.

[OneEye]

Sure, you may be able to get into a program, but that doesn't mean that you'll succeed in your chosen field if your Chinese skills aren't there. Having the skills before starting your Master's degree will make it that much easier on you. If half your courses are language courses, that's not much of an MA, in my opinion. Not to mention that you won't be able to really develop your language skills if you're also having to devote time to courses in your chosen field.

Besides, getting into Leiden (not sure about Lund) will require good Chinese as it is. Their undergrads spend a year as full-time language students in either Beijing or Taipei before returning to Leiden for their final year. And let's not forget that going above and beyond the minimum entry requirements for a grad degree is always a good idea. It's not exactly a piece of cake getting accepted, much less succeeding.

[hutudekongfuzi]

As mentioned, the fastest pathway to postgraduate study will not necessarily best prepare you for employment, but nor does it mean you would not have the language proficiency to succeed in a work environment - it depends entirely on the level of commitment to learning the language. It is simply an option that contains its own merits if you do not want to spend 2 years preparing for postgraduate study.