Deprecated radicals

[drencrom]

So, I've been studying the list of 214 radicals on Anki. I have found that there are several useless, dated radicals that rarely appear in any character. Let's see, there's axe, halberd, spear, another kind of axe, and probably more I haven't seen yet. Anyone have a list of radicals that frankly don't need to be studied? I know we should learn all of them, because the only reason to learn Chinese is to pass the HSK, but my study time is sharply limited. I prefer to learn useful Chinese rather than spend time on characters like 戍, which is surely of great academic interest but rather useless to me in my life. I've found a list of radicals sorted by frequency but would still like to hear input.

[WestTexas]

I think if you learn to enjoy the language you might have more success in the long run.

Also, memorizing 214 words is nothing. My Anki Deck has over 9000 cards right now. I add 20-30 every day. I don't even study Chinese full time. If you're balking at memorizing a few more radicals which you don't think are useful (how do you know, since presumably you are just a beginner?) then perhaps it's time to reconsider studying Chinese.

[flynnfrogg]

You have a list of radicals ranked by frequency? Please do share - I am just beginning to study Chinese and it will be very useful for me Thanks

[Iriya]

I never bothered to learn the 214 radicals by heart. This has nothing to do with my love (or lack of) for the language. They aren't very useful in the modern world and many natives don't know them either.

Knowing the common radical names, on the other hand, is pretty useful, as it allows you to verbally describe how to write a specific character.

[Hofmann]

While I'd agree that some radicals are very rare, I think it's a good idea to learn them anyway because they help you look stuff up. But you make yourself less credible if you think axe (斤) is rare.

[Guest realmayo]

I suggest you forget your anki radicals list and slowly build up your own: when you come across a new character make sure you can identify its radical, and once you've seen a few characters with the same radical then double-check you know the 'meaning' of the radical and only then consider sticking into anki.

But don't study the radicals the same way that you'd study normal vocab -- lots (most?) of the radicals you aren't going to see sitting on their own, they'll almost always be part of another characters.

Studying them on their own is a bit like asking someone to memorise all the different English sounds that are generated by the spelling "-ough" ie through though plough etc.

[Guest realmayo]

Also, thinking about it more, I'd also suggest doing the same for components of characters which also function as stand-alone characters: if you find you're often coming across the same component in several characters then look it up and add it to anki. Radicals and the other components are the building blocks of characters: useful to know in their own right but its preferable I think to learn them gradually by breaking up and rebuilding new characters as you learn them, rather than just arming yourself with the basic blocks and assume that you'll be able to slot them into place immediately.

So: you're not saying: oh, here's another spear I've got to learn .... but: here's that weapon-thing that I already know is in the characters for 找 或 and 战.

[abcdefg]

Knowing the common radical names, on the other hand, is pretty useful, as it allows you to verbally describe how to write a specific character.

I agree and find those names quite useful too. Appreciate the link. Funny that this list has "r or 儿 on the end of each one. Must have been compiled by someone in Beijing. Pardon me, I meant to say Beijingrrr. I don't know how to use the smiley faces, but if I did, I would put one here to indicate that I'm only joking.

Let's see, there's axe, halberd, spear, another kind of axe, and probably more I haven't seen yet.

Even those are antiquated nouns in English, the radicals expressing them are more common in Chinese than one might think. Consider that even 我 uses the "spear radical" 戈。

[Gharial]

One of the biggest problems with the Kangxi radicals as traditionally arranged is that they are a real jumble in terms of initial stroke-type, which makes them difficult to scan, and this surely adds to the burden of memorizing them efficiently and looking up characters with them.

My main advice therefore would be to get a good inexpensive mid-size dictionary (paper ~) such as the ABC ECCE, which has rearranged them into a very logical and clear 'Comprehensive Radical Chart'. (Then, there is the quite similarly-arranged Unified 201-radical scheme, details of which can be found in Google Book previews of Daniel Kane's The Chinese Language). The ECCE's indexes are also excellent, and provide very useful information regarding frequency and possible "deprecation" (i.e. Kangxi radicals that are unused in the ECCE's almost 6,000 characters are labelled as thus, though one could of course work this out for oneself in this and other dictionaries whenever few or zero characters appear in any given radical's index section!).

Or you could for free take a look at the gifs and notes I wrote for the widely-used simplified CASS 189-radical scheme, in which I provide basic frequency indications (bullets) as well as some idea of how often each radical appears (and in its possibly various positions) in all the characters it heads in the POCD (Pocket Oxford Chinese Dictionary), along with a brief listing of any Kangxi radicals which have no equivalent simplified radical: http://www.chinese-f...__fromsearch__1 . In the gifs I've also attempted to point out (by means of bracketing their character uses) those radicals that are too archaic and/or monosyllabic a way in certainly the modern language for expressing such-and-such a sense; then, the mnemonic names I've chosen are sometimes different to, and hopefully more "sense-able" and memorable than, the names that are usually given.

Anyway, in total (but obviously depending on the size of dictionary you use) there are usually only ever around a dozen or so "completely useless" radicals, so you'd only be saving a day or two at most by avoiding/not learning them. And somewhat like that old saying goes, it's always better to know your radicals and not need them, than to need them and not know them.

[feng]

As usual, I think the truth is somewhere in-between. Learning all the radicals right off the bat is almost completely pointless, and a quite difficult exercise.

As others have suggested, learn the radicals as you go, over time. Once you have seen and/or written the same "component" multiple times, go look up if its a radical so you can associate a name with it. Associating a name with each radical _as you go_ is very useful.