The Flowers of War

[patko]

Hello

I just got done watching this master piece. The film hit me very deeply and I was wondering if anyone could tell me how the chinese themselves expirienced this movie. Any accounts of viewing it in the theater or of friends, share it here please.

I want to know their reactions to seeing this, as an outsider it was already painful and emotional to watch. And so I wondered..

[imron]

merged.

[abcdefg]

I want to know their reactions to seeing this, as an outsider it was already painful and emotional to watch. And so I wondered..

See this page, post 23 for how it played out in Kunming when I saw it at the beginning of January. Nowhere near the impact of "Nanjing, Nanjing" in 2009.

http://www.chinese-f...ar/page__st__20

(To clarify, I am not Chinese, but I went to both movies with Chinese friends.)

[yersi]

Watched this with a friend last night. It's a good story, a technically well-made film and there are many good elements I could point out. But in the end, I ended up being distracted by all the weird scenes in English, and the non-chemistry between Bale and the Chinese lead. My impression was that most of the Chinese actors over-prepared for their English scenes, with the result that their English lines came out very forced and unnatural. Yu Mo in particular stuck out like a sore thumb. The funny thing is, even though his English was technically the most 'broken', I thought the kid did the best because he seemed to be speaking in a way that was natural to him.

Pretty good movie otherwise.

[SumChoi]

The cinematography in the movie was amazing and judging by other Chinese movies, there doesn't seem to be a shortage of talented cinematographers in China. As for the story, I felt it was quite weak, and also judging by other Chinese movies, screenwriting is still lacking in China. I am go into further details to explain which parts I had issues with but I rather not bore you guys. I guess I'm tired of all these anti-Japanese movies with prostitutes who have a heart of gold. It seems like there are 3 main types of movies in China nowadays: 1) Anti-Japanese 2) Anti-Caucasian 3) Pro-Communist. There are other movies as well but they are often ignored and overshadowed by these 3 types of movies.

[xiaocai]

This is NOT an anti-Japanese movie. And you may also kindly name me a Chinese anti-Caucasian movie. And your categorisation is just simply absurd.

[SumChoi]

I don't know what your definition of an anti-Japanese movie but clearly this is it. Just because they didn't flat out say, "Japanese people are evil," doesn't make this film a non-anti-Japanese film.

The film tried to portray the acts of the Japanese during the Nanking Massacre truthfully and I have nothing against that, but you can't deny this film can be and will be used to stir anti-Japanese sentiments. Eventually, people might lose any antipathy towards Japanese people over time (just like how we dissociate an actor from a certain role over time), I don't think anybody can watch that film and immediately emerge with the feeling that Japanese are good people. And I doubt anybody would feel very comfortable watching a film like that with a Japanese person by their side. And also, it won't even be shown in Japan.

You can argue that this film is about the prostitutes and not about the Japanese but if that's the case, why do they have to use the Nanking Massacre as a backdrop to prove their point? They can accomplish the same task even if they used a fictitious setting. Also, this movie in the end is a fictitious story but it can't be argued that this movie tried to accurate portray something. I don't think a movie like Letters from Iwojima is an anti-Japanese film because it tried to show the humanity and decency that can exist even on the enemy side but I don't see any of that in Flowers of War.

There might be some who claim this film is not anti-Japanese but it's borderline enough for the press to call it that. And even if the filmmakers say it's not their intention to make an anti-Japanese film, there are enough people to consider it to be one and to me, in this situation it's enough to be one.

All the Japanese characters seemed evil and Colonel Hasegawa seemed apathetic at best. In terms of anti-Caucasian movie, I think Ip-Man 2 and Empire of Silver can be considered as such.

And next time, if you want to make a point, please do so without being unnecessarily rude simply by saying something is absurd. I don't want to have discussions with people who are unwilling to observe these simple rules.

[xiaocai]

You can argue that this film is about the prostitutes and not about the Japanese but if that's the case, why do they have to use the Nanking Massacre as a backdrop to prove their point? They can accomplish the same task even if they used a fictitious setting.

No. Millions of Chinese died in the Second World War, on their homeland, because of unprovoked invasion of the Japanese, and we just wanted to mourn our own people. And we remember it through various ways so this tragedy, which caused so much pain in many countries, including Japan, will not happen again. If there is a movie to show the humanity and decency on the enemy side (of which many had been officially condemned as war criminals), I don't see anything wrong to make many movies to show as victims how much we suffered. So how do you expect the Japanese to be depicted in a movie about the Second World War in China, especially in this case about the Nanking Massacre, other than being the invader? If you can lift up your fingers and do a little bit more research about the Nanking Massacre and you will find out that we have actually toned it down a lot in this movie in contrary to what actually happened in Nanjing, or it will be too gruesome and horrid to be shown on the big screen of any country.

There might be some who claim this film is not anti-Japanese but it's borderline enough for the press to call it that. And even if the filmmakers say it's not their intention to make an anti-Japanese film, there are enough people to consider it to be one and to me, in this situation it's enough to be one.

When you said borderline, so who drew the line? And how many people will be enough people? Can you be more specific on these claims you have made?

Here is a list of the top 10 Chinese movies in 2011 in terms of revenue, and would you kindly point out how many of these fall in to the three categories of yours?

1 《金陵十三钗》

2 《建党伟业》

3 《龙门飞甲》

4 《失恋33天》

5 《窃听风云2》

6 《新少林寺》

7 《白蛇传说》

8 《将爱情进行到底》

9 《武林外传》

10 《画壁》

Then we can probably discuss about the "anti-caucasianism" in Ip Man II and Empire of Silver after you have answered these questions.

And next time, when you want to make a point, please provide with evidence to support it. Or it will very likely to be absurd. I don't want to have discussion with people who fail to observe this one simple rule.

[gato]

When movies are so tightly controlled by the government, it doesn't make sense to talk about movies as if they are an expression of popular will. There are many other things that people would like to commemorate through movies, but those movies aren't allowed to be shown.

[xiaocai]

I would agree, but can we not drag the government in in this case again? I think we have had enough discussions about the censorship of the Chinese government on these forums already, and yes those movies you can see are not all what we want to express, same to books and many other media forms, but as a Chinese individual, I think this movie can express my sentiment to what happened in Nanjing at that time. I don't want to forget, and neither do I think we should. I know the government has done and maybe is still going to do many stupid things, but that does not make up for those inappropriate comments some ignorant people have made.

[imron]

would you kindly point out how many of these fall in to the three categories of yours?

I would like to propose a fourth category for #9 《武林外传》- anti-fans of the《武林外传》TV series

[Lu]

This is NOT an anti-Japanese movie. And you may also kindly name me a Chinese anti-Caucasian movie. And your categorisation is just simply absurd.

I agree that that categorisation works only for some Chinese movies, but c'mon, Ip Man 2. And I seem to remember Huo Yuanjia having a similar theme, much as I loved seeing Li Lianjie kick ass in it.

Also I wonder why so many people thought The Flowers of War was a good movie. It was put together of cliches and cliches only, with the possible exception of George. The madonna(s) and the whore(s), the hooker with the heart of gold (x13), the Evil Japanese (x many), the 'he belongs to the enemy but is a decent man', the traitor who gets his comeuppance, the degenerate who redeems himself, the hero who dies during his last stand, it goes on and on. There were a few places where the cinematography was decent, but from Zhang Yimou I expect more than just a few pretty scenes.

[imron]

but from Zhang Yimou I expect more than just a few pretty scenes.

I don't any more.

[gato]

He hasn't been the same since Gong Li left him.

[xiaocai]

No one has to think it is good or like it, but this movie is NOT anti-Japanese. Also to extrapolate that Chinese movies are all about "1) Anti-Japanese 2) Anti-Caucasian 3) Pro-Communist" is absurd. And that was my point. This is irrelevant to whether the movie is appealing to you or not, and I also do not really care.

[JustinJJ]

I know this is an old thread, but I watched the movie last night after I finished reading the novel. The movie is simply a terrible interpretation of the book - the plot differs so much from the original that I think it's 'inspired by the novel' but only very loosely. Christian Bale's character doesn't even exist in the novel (there are actually two priests in the novel but they bare no relationship to Bale's character at all). 

 

I'd certainly recommend the novel though, in fact it's one of the most interesting I've read, but I can't help being disappointed after seeing the movie. Very much portrayed to be an 'anti-Japanese' - obviously it's hard to get away from that theme completely given the events the movie/book concern, however there is so much more in the novel which is left out of the film. 

[Lu]

@JustinJJ, that's good to know. I had written off the book, and pretty much the author as well, because I found the movie so shitty. I shouldn't have been so quick to judge.

[LaoDing]

This is my least favorite of Zhang Yimou films, and I've pretty much seen them all. Having said that, I can't think of another Zhang Yimou film that I didn't like, including the kung fu epics, which I thought were stunning.

I thought this film to be highly politicized, and in a sickly sweet way, romanticized Hollywood-style that almost offends (the handsome fake priest who overcomes his alcoholism, the prostitutes that sacrifice their lives for the school girls, the single soldier killing scores of Japanese). It's almost as if the powers that be had a sit down with Zhang and said, 'all right you're finally gonna make a pro-Chinese film or else.' And let's face it, given the utter hopelessness of the Nanjing massacre, wasn't this film just too far beautiful? How can we have a sexy heroine as a protagonist in such a film? To me, this is a shallow propaganda film. Maybe people who liked American Sniper will like this film.

Again, that said, I'm a huge fan of Zhang Yimou!

The best film on the Nanjing massacre by far is 'Nanjing! Nanjing!' In my opinion this film is a masterpiece on many levels and describes the whole Japanese Imperial Army's presence in China in a far more disturbing way than Flowers of War (which is very hard to believe). It offers insight into war and genocide that is universal and transcends the politics and propaganda that continues to be the raw nerve issue of the Nanjing Massacre. If someone could tell us a definitive documentary on the subject I'm sure we'd love to hear it.

Another great movie on the topic of occupation by the way is 'Devils on the Doorstep.' And 'The River Runs East in the Spring' as well. That may have inspired 'Devils on the Doorstep.'

[gato]

I liked "Nanjing! Nanjing!" as well.

[Lu]

I thought Nanjing! Nanjing! was a good movie that is well-made and does justice to the massacre, but I would never use the word 'like' to describe my feelings about it. I never want to watch another Nanjing massacre movie again after seeing that one.