Benny Lewis' 3-month quest to become fluent in Mandarin

[simplet]

Interestingly it seems to me that non-english speakers have an advantage when it comes to evaluating their level in other languages. Most of them (I'm talking about people with such good education in general that they thought it might be fun to become polyglots in their free time) already had to learn english to such a degree that they can always compare what they can do in other languages to what they can do in english. I think it's hard to directly compare your proficiency in a language to the proficiency you possess naturally in your maternal language.

[Erbse]

Benny published his next video, 2 weeks after starting to learn.

http://www.fluentin3months.com/1st-mandarin-vid/

No surprises at all. He's obviously making an effort, but there is no way he goes to C1 in time.

[roddy]

Closing, as promised.

[roddy]

Reopening, as promised.

[xuefang]

Well, well, well. There's no 3 month video yet, so we still have to wait for a week or so. I did write a kilometer long post to my own blog though, but better not to write the same words here ;)

In general I think it's great he decided to travel in China for the next three months and continue to study and use Chinese.

[anonymoose]

I just watched the 2.5 month video here. To be fair, given Benny had only been learning for 2.5 months, it wasn't a bad performance - probably better than most foreigners after such a short time.

However, given all the bluster about becoming fluent in 3 months and very fluid goals, it we are to judge based on this higher standard, then the performance could not be considered to be anywhere near fluent, was riddled with mistakes and had poor pronunciation.

I don't relish giving such a harsh appraisal to a very good effort, but at the same time, I object to those who preach some revolutionary technique to learning languages which don't actually deliver when put into practice (as is usually the case).

[roddy]

You can summarize your long blog post, xuefang.

From what I've seen - pretty much the same thoughts as anonymoose. Guy studied hard for three months, learned a bit of Chinese. Nothing special, and to be honest given the amount of hype, pretty disappointing. Nothing you couldn't get out of three months at a decent language school. In fact quite possibly a lot less. Credit for trying though.

[gato]

Haha. Tough crowd.

Benny obviously underestimated the difficulty of the task with his bluster at the start and became more realistic as it went on. I do give him credit for having a good attitude and honesty in admitting the difficulties.

[roddy]

Your verdict, Gato?

[oooh, you sneaky edit-ninja, you]

[OneEye]

For 3 months (2.5, whatever), not bad. As expected, nowhere near his original goal, but really, not bad. I do agree with roddy though, he could have made similar, if not better, progress by spending 3 months at a good language school and working hard outside of class. I say this from personal experience.

Anyway, I have no doubt that he'll continue to improve if that's what he chooses to do, but hopefully he'll do something about his pronunciation ASAP.

I actually saw Benny crossing the street 3 weeks ago or so. Thought about saying hi, but he had his headphones in and didn't look like he wanted to be bothered. Not to mention he isn't a huge fan of the feedback I've given him on his site, but oh well.

[xuefang]

There are lot of things I like about Benny, lot of things I agree with him. He has inspired me to study harder and I'm sure others have felt the same way. This wasn't the topic of my blog post though as it's not as interesting as the other half.

Based on his 2,5 month video I would say he is on A2 level. It's great progress for three months, I probably learnt pretty much the same in Finland in 1,5 years. But that is the level I thought he would get, so no surprise there. I also don't agree with his definitions of fluency, for example when he says his high level fluency is still a bit off, I would say that high level fluency is not something he will get in few weeks, or during the next three months traveling.

I also think that it's better to set realistic goals than try to reach fluency in thee months. When you set a realistic goal you will study hard, but you also get the feel of success, which is very important to keep you motivated. For example I recently chose a Chinese book that was way above my level and I only read 35 pages in two months, but when I changed to an easier novel I've read 74 pages in three days!

I will surely continue to follow his blog during the next three months and will read what he will write about learning Chinese. He has been very successful in sparking discussion on multiple forums and surely getting new readers for his blog.

[Guest realmayo]

Should I be very narcissistic and quote myself from the start of this thread? :oops: Okay, if you insist, kakakka:

Yes, no harm having someone say he's going to learn far faster and far better than anyone else and that he's going to prove all those "naysayers" wrong, but rather than giving those naysayers a chance to say "well done" or "I told you so" at the end, it'll just be "oh well that's not bad for three months I suppose but certainly not C1 (and his tones are off)".

[neverending]

I quite like Benny and follow his blog - frankly, if he'd been writing 10 years ago, when I was still failing to tackle high school French, I would have found him inspiring. I think that's really the point of his website. His blog is not so much for people who already frequent language learning forums, but rather showing people that anyone can learn a language, so long as they learn in the right way, with the right tools.

This gives me rather mixed feelings about his latest mission, however. I don't think his Chinese mission has been inspiring in the same way that his previous missions have been. He has previously learned Italian in 3 months while working full-time, or almost fully passed the German C2 in 3 months, which really puts a boot up the arse of anyone who has failed to learn those languages. But despite now working full-time as a language learner, and having the benefit of years of experience under his belt, he still hasn't been able to hit B2 - maybe not even full B1 - in Chinese. (I'm not saying I'm surprised.) Not to mention how he has gone on about the miserable time he'd had in Taiwan. All this does for me is reinforce what an enormous challenge Chinese is. This isn't such a problem for most of us, because we've already accepted the challenge, but this mission just seems out-of-place with his blog's overall message.

Edited April 5, 2012 at 12:06 PM by neverending

[Shelley]

Well watched the video. Noticed he didn't talk to a chinese person (which would have been a better test IMO) and the guy he was tallking to seemed to be refering to notes. Wonder why? (keeping to a script maybe?, don't know for sure but it does raise qustions)

Couldn't be bothered to count the number of ums and other hesitation noises but it seemed alot. He has done ok. But IMHO no way fluent:)

Tones and pronouciation needs work.

I don't think I will be eating my hat any time soon:)

As I said before i have no problems with his aim to learn chinese quickly it was his phrase "fluent in 3 months" that got me.

Credit where credit is due, not too bad Benny:)

[Guest realmayo]

It would be interesting to ask Benny if his current three-month Chinese ability is as good as his other languages such as German etc were at the three-month mark?

I see from his website that he says he doesn't like learning languages.

[icebear]

I agree with the general tone of the posts above, especially neverending at #233 and roddy at #229. Benny has made good progress in a short time, but its nothing out of the ordinary for those attending a language training school intensively for a few months, and maybe even a little below average for those with high motivation (I've known a few government staff who had very intensive 1-1 classes for a few months that made amazing progress - all about the intensity with great teachers, zero English-life, and very real risk related to failing an evaluation at the end).

I especially agree with neverending that I find Benny's other language experiences more inspiring, especially concerning improving my own mediocre (B1) Spanish by just speaking more, but Benny's experiences in Taiwan have demonstrated that there is enough different about Chinese that those language learning techniques are not "one size fits all". From the few videos and posts I've seen on his site, he seems to have rather ungracefully backtracked on his original claims and is now settling for the intangible "comfortable" rather than "fluent". As discussed in other threads, the two can [potentially] be worlds apart. Again, I think he has made good progress, but his original mission was more than that.

As stated elsewhere in this thread: nothing against the guy. He's got his own schtick that is apparently keeping him afloat, traveling and learning languages, so more power to him. I do think this means that he is probably more diplomatic about revising his goals or conceding failure/shortcomings on his blog/online than he might be with friends in a bar. That's the big difference with most posters here - we have no reputation to maintain, and are very willing to point out our own weaknesses (and seek their solutions) - its a big reason for coming here.

[hanyu_xuesheng]

A ridiculous C1 promise in the beginning, and mission not accomplished at the end. After all, his Chinese seems to be around A2 which is nothing spectacular.

Benny: "if you decide that the 3 months is a “failure” because I didn’t get the C1 target, then that’s your own sad problem ..."

Yeah, I am so sad now! -

Why is this guy's tone more and more aggressive? Are there not enough people buying his stuff?

[irishpolyglot]

Hey guys - want to ease off a bit? I never made any promises (apart from saying I'd get out of the As) - I only shared my high objectives. Amazed at how offended so many are being because I was ambitious, and many comments here ignore my original contributions to this post, as well as what I've written in the recent blog post (skills for quoting out of context aside).

The real goal of this time was to force myself to get to as useful a level in Chinese as I could for these upcoming travels and I've done that. I never claimed I had some revolutionary learning strategy, just that I have a positive attitude, and don't speak English - I say it many times that I'm just applying efficient immersion, and that I'm no cleverer than the next guy since I'm only an electronic engineer who started learning languages in his 20s.

So many people keep saying "he claimed this and that", when I never did any such thing - I suppose it's easy to get offended if you thought I genuinely believed I'd fully master Chinese in 3 months, but I never said that anywhere. You'd be wise to encourage more expats to try to learn as fast as I did, even if this is simply as fast as some of you have learned - because too many people never try at all. While some of you say this isn't inspiring, my inbox tells me otherwise, with countless dozens of people who appreciate seeing me struggle so much and have been inspired to see me eventually reach something that they see is indeed realistic in 3 months. Several have told me that they have taken on learning Chinese themselves because I've framed it as something that they can at least have a basic conversation in too. I was just contributing to another forum post here and I don't see much in terms of such encouragement for people in the country.

If it's so easy to get to a B level in Chinese, then why are there so many expats in Taiwan and China who can't even muster out a few phrases? THIS is what I'm trying to change, not non-existent promises that I have a magic 3-month formula. I've re-explained the title of my blog in the recent post.

I see lots of great advice on this forum and elsewhere online for learning Chinese in general, especially if you take your time at it. But there's almost nobody telling expats and others with true pressure to hurry up. This is a message that needs to get out there. If you think what I achieved is perfectly reasonable for any normal person in 3 months then great! That was the point all along - share that story with someone not experienced in language learning and they might actually think "huh, maybe I should try this too..."

What I have was never supposed to be "impressive", it was supposed to be useful. Now I can travel China and actually converse with people I meet - surely that's a good thing? If not then we really are on a different page.

[imron]

Well watched the video. Noticed he didn't talk to a chinese person (which would have been a better test IMO)

Actually I quite liked the fact that he was speaking to someone who was not Chinese, but who had fluent Chinese. Regarding the sheets of paper, it's not uncommon for interviewers to have notes and/or a list of questions they want to ask. It certainly didn't come across like he was reading a script to me.

[animal world]

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

As skylee suggests, please close this thread.