Benny Lewis' 3-month quest to become fluent in Mandarin

[abcdefg]

...I am having trouble getting understood - most likely because my tones are so off. I am looking for private lessons starting tomorrow, to have someone help me drill this out. Soon I'll focus more on social interactions, rather than lessons, to improve the majority of my spoken skills.

Best wishes in your quest and welcome to Chinese Forums!

I read parts of your blog last night and am convinced you have more ability to learn languages quickly than most. Social interactions are always the impetus for me to go back and take more lessons so that I can get along better in daily life. Passing arbitrary tests is something I will gladly leave to others.

Had supper with Chinese friends tonight and was able to enter into things without holding up the pace of general conversation much even though I made plenty of mistakes. That felt good and inspires me to hit the books harder tomorrow.

[Silent]

so please stop spreading the misinformation

I'm well aware of the debate about the hsk/cef level comparison. I clearly mentioned it in my post.

Feel free to sign up, quote selectively and rant about it anonimously mr or mrs m040601.

[leosmith]

Chinesepod got in touch with me directly, which was very clever of their PR considering my site's traffic, to offer me a free subscription. So I'll definitely check it out ;)

Chinesepod is ok for the very beginning, but

http://www.chineselearnonline.com/

is much better, and free. It's graduated by the lesson, and based in Taiwan, so it's probably the best fit for you.

Something that people want to watch beyond just seeing how well I'm speaking is the priority - if I can make interesting content in a target language, which NATIVES will find interesting and want to share, that for me is way more important than wowing the English speaking world that I've learned the language.

In addition to that, why not post something that shows what level you reached? Have a native interview you. Unrehearsed, unedited. I don't see how this can be a bad thing, unless you are trying to avoid a real assessment.

"Where's the challenge" - seriously??? If you've done what I intend to do, by all means show me your video, explain exactly how you did it to make it so easy, and tell me how much of a walk in the park those 3 months were :-P This will be a challenge - I'm surprised to see someone suggest it will be so easy.

Yeah, don't you hate it when someone makes it sound like all your hard work was a waste of time? Ya know - like when someone says they can learn your target language in 3 months?

I absolutely guarantee you that I will go beyond A1 & A2. B1 will be the minimum level for me to consider these 3 months as a useful experience

So the bar has been lowered to B1 already. This is starting to sound like his failed Thai experiment already...

[jbradfor]

So yes, that means there is currently no Chinese official "advanced" level test you can pass, that can be compared to any "advanced" level exam you can take in other languages.

There is no advanced level test intended for non-native speakers. If one really wants to test ones "advanced" level, there are certainly other tests one can take, just not the HSK.

[roddy]

If anyone's interested, here's what a C1 oral exam for English looks like. It's about an IELTS 7, I guess. You can't 蒙混过关 on these - you should be able to cope in any but the most challenging meetings, tutorials and dinner paries.

failed Thai experiment

Experiments don't fail, theories fail. ;-)

[peterlkj]

I think a better assessment, and in line with the social intercourse aspect that Benny focuses on is to participate in a round-table discussion of some sort with native speakers.

When I was first learning Chinese, it only took me a few months to be able to have some sort of decent conversation with a language partner. Really participating in a multi-party conversation, understanding the topic under discussion and breaking in at appropriate times when you're not the one driving the conversation, and the conversation isn't just focused on you is far more challenging, and would undoubtedly be really impressive.

The "problem" with one on one conversations is that the other party will, almost inevitably, heavily modify their use of language in order to help you understand them.

[roddy]

The "problem" with one on one conversations is that the other party will, almost inevitably, heavily modify their use of language in order to help you understand them.

Hell, in an interview (which you're giving) you can just say 'That's interesting, lets move on' when you get lost.

[irishpolyglot]

@WestTexas Sorry about that error. I've fixed it. Actually took me several hours, which was an annoying distraction that kept me online, wasting lots of time arguing with redditors about my mission

@LeoSmith Thanks for the link!! Checking it out.

Since I'm sure those in this thread would be interested, I've just posted the following on my Facebook page:

Making big strides in my Chinese already! Have yet to see these famed aspects that will make it impossible. So far I can:

* Write whatever you want me to in traditional Chinese, if I know how it's pronounced with tones and vaguely recall what the symbol looks like to confirm I'm not picking the wrong one. This is so easy to do on a computer and phone, it can be explained to you in 2 minutes. I don't use pen and paper; this is the 21st century ;)

* I've also learned the first 50 symbols from Heisig's book (able to fully recognise all of them, and say each of them correctly with the tones fully from memory; not able or interested in writing them with correct stroke order for this mission). So I can see a symbol, and tell you what it means AND how to say it, if it's among those 50, and I can pick it from a list from recognising it well if I have to produce it. Technically I could write all of them, but with the wrong stroke order.

While this is useful, I'm going to only focus on recognising these symbols from his book, with less work on pronouncing them. They are NOT the most common words at all, and I have another book for that. I just need to be able to recognise parts of characters and radicals to help me memorise a new word with some logic.

* Say the tones correctly enough that people WILL understand me (unlike my first days), although my vocab is weak because I've been focusing so much on pronunciation.

* Am fully capable of saying and recognising any number you like. Chinese uses a different system where you say the zero, or don't say the last zeros in some cases. It's interesting and takes some mental work, so I kind of have to pull a Jack Sparrow while I do some calculations, but hopefully I'll get used to this to be able to do it quicker.

So, I've been in stores and can hear them tell me the price of something without needing to look at the register.

So, seeing as the tones, and writing system, and reading it, are not as bad as everyone makes them out to be, once I have some key words and phrases now that I can pronounce them in an understandable way, I can maybe invite someone out for a coffee ;)

Full details on the progress I've made and how I've done it, in the week 1 summary coming up in the middle of the week!

[rezaf]

@Benny: I still can't access your blog but I suggest that in the future you upload videos on youku or tudou as well so that the people behind the great firewall can also watch them.

[irishpolyglot]

@rezaf That's strange - someone else in the mainland suggested that it's working for them.

My Chinese is still not good enough to navigate these sites to use them and Google Translate is breaking the links on them. Is there an English sign up page? Or does Dotsub work in China, since I have an account there too.

[rezaf]

It might be because of my browser(safari) but even if I can open your blog I won't be able to see the videos uploaded on some websites like Youtube. Anyway maybe your Chinese will be good enough after a few weeks to sign up on those Chinese websites.

Edit: Dotsub is also blocked

[roddy]

I wouldn't bother with changing your hosting, everyone in China either has a functioning VPN or has given up all hope. Rezaf still retains a little flicker of optimism, but we're working on beating that out of him.

[renzhe]

Making big strides in my Chinese already! Have yet to see these famed aspects that will make it impossible.

Oh, you remind me so much of my younger self 10 years ago. I really like you

I would really appreciate it if you actually evaluated your progress using some kind of objective standard (like people are suggesting) at the end of the three months. Please don't understand this as some kind of aggressive challenge. It would be very instructive for everyone because haters on the internet won't find it easy to disparage your work if you do this. We've actually had people claiming they can reach native level in writing in 3 months and they never came back -- you don't want to be lumped together with them.

Like I said, considering the goals you have set for yourself, I would be very interested in having you watch a half an hour programme aimed at native speakers at the end of the three months (of any difficulty -- it can be for schoolchildren!) and summarise the major plot points, and answer a few questions about some details. Won't take you more than an hour after all is done, and you'd have accomplished something I firmly believe is impossible.

[roddy]

Has anyone coughed up for any of Benny's paid products? Would Benny himself like to donate a couple of review copies, perchance? Any volunteers to take a look at them for us?

[irishpolyglot]

The problem with your test is that I could make it up, or you could claim the person who selected the programme is working for me, or that I saw it in advance etc.

Even if I met someone from this forum in person and he vouched for me, that would only convince this forum, not others.

Cynics will never be satisfied as there is always room for doubt. Even though I have radio interviews and several live video Interviews online, a C2 diploma, experience working as a professional translator for several years, videos that have gone viral for natives on their version of Digg etc. etc. in Spanish, people still find ways to say I don't really speak it. Before I had the live video interviews and only the radio interviews, they said a spontaneous interview video would shut the doubters up. It hasn't. Several have suggested that my videos are scripted, which is ludicrous. I totally expect the same comment about my Chinese, no matter what I upload.

I actually wrote an April Fool's post "confessing" to faking my videos because I was so sick of all the silly accusations:http://www.fluentin3months.com/bennys-confession/

Since I plan to maintain it, I'll be making numerous videos in Chinese on totally unrelated topics with different people featured, and if someone has something that I'd find interesting to talk about, I'll be happy to do an online video interview... although my preference is always on camera. But I want them to be interesting to watch (not just for language enthusiasts), and proving that I can follow a TV show isn't quite the kind of message I'm trying to get across on my blog. I dislike TV. I plan to use my huge HD screen you saw behind me in the video to basically only do what you saw me do with it and probably nothing more other than perhaps watch some news.

You'll see in my week update what I'm doing instead of TV to improve my listening abilities in Mandarin. Way more entertaining ;)

@Roddy I'll be updating all my products in April to reflect important changes to those learning Asian languages (although so far they'd only be a few paragraphs of tips, since the main underlying strategy of the communicative approach is universal). Best to wait until then before it's more useful to the likes of this forum. All of my advice is available for free on the blog if you don't mind wasting a little time reading my cultural and travel updates. The products are for people to save that time, since there is no narrative in them.

I always tell people that spending large amounts of money is not necessary to learn a language. This includes paying me that money, but I offer it there since I still have bills to pay. ;) I intentionally packed it full of content in multiple languages with worksheets, a professional design, interviews etc. to justify a higher price, since this way I only need to sell one a day to cover my expenses and I don't have to spam the bejeezus out of the Internet with banners, advertising and the like. The promotional post I have on my blog last week is the only one there over the entire last 8 months.

An experienced language learner, who is confident in talking to people, will not need to buy my products.

[renzhe]

In that case, no offense, but I'll continue being cynical. I still wish you luck, though.

Even though I have radio interviews and several live video Interviews online, a C2 diploma, experience working as a professional translator for several years, ... in Spanish, people still find ways to say I don't really speak it. Before I had the live video interviews and only the radio interviews, they said a spontaneous interview video would shut the doubters up.

Any of these (done in Chinese) would convince me, actually.

But since you don't seem interested, I'll have to see how your video interviews turn out.

[irishpolyglot]

TV is boring to me, so that's why I'm not interested. In fact, for most TV shows on the air in English if you sat me down in front of them for 30 minutes I wouldn't be able to pay attention enough to tell you what it's about in much detail... so I'd fail that test!

I won't be doing a video in Chinese about politics either - why? Not something I'm strong at or very interested in in English either. One major critique I have of major testing systems is that they presume a particular set of topics are what people generally discuss on a day to day basis as universal, just because intellectuals are more likely to talk about them. I'd be much more inclined to talk technology with someone than fashion, and will learn processor and software before I learn vest and cuffling. It's why I like to get away from books and courses as soon as possible; they are far too generic and ignore my particular interests and conversation requirements.

I also aim to speak more like the middle class than the upper class and prioritise SMS-ese learning. Since many linguists are upper class, my over use of slang and informalities in my videos from them generally can merit a presumption that my level isn't good enough. In Portuguese for example, there is an inaccurate conjugation of "tu sabe" that no text book will ever teach you, but that's how many people speak in Rio, so it's how I speak. Someone with an examiner mindset will punish this insult to formal use of the language.

Anyway, I'll worry about testing later. Right now I prefer (and need) to focus on the short term objectives. If I set up some test now, 3 months in advance, I'll perhaps be inclined to study and improve towards that (learning for the test, rather than for the love of communication) which would be very sad indeed.

I'll try to find something that's both enjoyable for me and demonstrating enough for doubters, when the time is right.

[imron]

In fact, for most TV shows on the air in English if you sat me down in front of them for 30 minutes I wouldn't be able to pay attention enough to tell you what it's about in much detail.

I'd settle for 5-10 minutes of 锵锵三人行. It's just 3 people sitting around chatting about current events, which sounds pretty much like the sort of level you want to achieve.

Regardless of C1, B1 or A1, if you could follow that show after 3 months of learning Chinese I'd be impressed.

[irishpolyglot]

Don't know what the show is about - depends on the "current events". As I said, politics isn't my forte in any language. I'd seriously have to strain myself to give you a useful summary of a political discussion in English.

But yes, I'll check it out for 5 minutes and if it isn't about a topic that I would have trouble with in English, (e.g. a summary of events going on in the city, talking about a new action movie coming out etc.) then I'll be happy to tell you honestly if I can follow it or not. But I think a video of me watching TV would be boring for more solid proof, and it would still be uncertain for skeptics whether I was watching a recording.

I like to keep the quality of my videos up ;)

Fun video suggestions? Let me know!

For the record I'd much rather INSPIRE people than impress them. If after all this time I leave people with the impression "wow, that Irish guy is super smart!" then I feel like it will have achieved nothing but a line of people ready to massage my ego. I want others to try to learn languages quicker too

[johnk]

Like most people here, I am pretty sceptical about being fluent in Mandarin in 3 months. At different times, I could get by in French, Italian and Spanish. Compared to these Languages, Chinese is orders of magnitude harder.

Anyway best of luck to you. The experience of Taiwan and Chinese will probably be worth it for its own sake.

Maith an fear agus go n-éirí an bóthar leat.