Trouble with 允许

[edelweis]

I have been listening to this GLOSS source text, trying to hear 允许 yun3xu3. It is written 4 times in the text, but every time I hear ye3xu3 instead. Is this a standard pronunciation?

In that other text I do hear yun3xu3...

[imron]

Visiting that page I get:

Access Denied

Error Code: 0x166.1028

System policy has denied your request.

[jkhsu]

In the "source text", I was able to hear 允许 correctly. It did not sound like ye3xu3 to me; I can definitely hear the "yun" sound.

However, the speaker's accent is suspect. I felt several characters had incorrect tones. For example, the "仍" in "但是这次投票结果仍然大大出乎预料" is pronunced with a 1st tone instead of a 2nd tone. And the "尽" in "尽管土耳其全国上下普遍反对卷入战争" is pronunced with a hard 4th tone instead of a 3rd tone. This is definitely not standard pronunciation if we're comparing to a "CCTV News" type of broadcast.

The "that other text" speaker seems to have a southern accent.

Adding: I'd listen to these CCTV news broadcasts instead: http://english.cntv.cn/program/learnchinese/specialchinese/index.shtml

[edelweis]

@imron: I get that error too now. strange...

@jkhsu: thanks. I guess I need to listen more carefully...

[xiaocai]

I think she has got a slight accent. It sounds to me that instead of yun, she said ryun. But I think it is kind of common and quite acceptable. Generally speaking her pronunciation is not as consistent as news anchors you may hear on CCTV but could actually represent the level of standard Mandarin of many Chinese people. The second clip sounds to me that she has a bit of Cantonese accent. I could be wrong though.

[edelweis]

thanks xiaocai. I listened to it again. Still hearing yexu or wexu (with a vowel sound like french é, spanish e) in the 1st clip.

I think I'm expecting the vowel sound in yun3 to be as sharp a "ü" as in xu3... and I hear it fine in the 2nd clip, just not in the 1st. Perhaps my knowledge of pinyin is wrong? Perhaps my ears are faulty

In case anyone is interested but gets an error with the links above, here are links to the GLOSS lessons. Click on "Source" in the top band to open the popup with the text and mp3 player.

1st clip (the info page says it's from VOA) 2nd clip (from the World Journal (??))

[xiaocai]

I'd say w( r )enxu can also be a valid approximation (of the way she pronounces yun). Your ears are not faulty, to me she definitely has an accent. I don't know much about French and Spanish phonology but yun should have a full ü sound in standard Mandarin, but in this case it is obviously affected by her accent.

[skylee]

if only I could find the sound file you guys were discussing ...

PS - ha now I see the play symbol.

[skylee]

I'd say w( r )enxu can also be a valid approximation (of the way she pronounces yun).

Yes.

Thanks for the thread, and noticing this particular pronunciation. I find it very interesting. But it does not sound like a Cantonese accent.

I have a related but different question. Do you guys think the pattern "盡管 ... 但是 ..." all right / acceptable? The 但是 makes me feel very uncomfortable but I am not sure if it is because of the influence of English.

[xiaocai]

For the Cantonese accent hypothesis, I was actually referring to the lady read the second clip, But as I said, I could be wrong.

I don't know if the pattern is acceptable grammatically or not, but personally I would not use it. It sound awkward to me, too.

[edelweis]

thanks skylee and xiaocai.

So my ears are not faulty

Perhaps more advanced learners can ignore minor pronunciation variation because their brains correct automatically according to the context... these texts are too advanced for me I'm afraid.

I have no idea about 盡管...

[jkhsu]

Do you guys think the pattern "盡管 ... 但是 ..." all right / acceptable?

I found 2 instances of "尽管 ... 但" usage in the CCTV news link I sent. Is using "但" and "但是" the same in this case? See below:

1. http://english.cntv.cn/program/learnchinese/20120111/115934.shtml

Listen starting from 4:20 : "尽管一家四代人的生日都是1月4日，但这..."

2. http://english.cntv.cn/program/learnchinese/20111220/117080.shtml

Listen starting from 2:59 : "尽管各方面普遍预计明年中国出口增速将会放缓，但我们..."

Also in both of these CCTV examples, the "尽" in "尽管" is a 3rd tone not a hard 4th tone like the "source text". My guess is that the person in the "source text" most likely speaks a local dialect.

[edelweis]

oh yes I forgot; thanks you jkhsu for that link.