A better translation for ‘Amen’

[Mark Yong]

I have been doing some researching on better ways to translate the Hebrew/Semitic word ‘Amen’ for ending prayers in the monotheistic religions, than the transliteration 『阿們』.

Apparently, old Cantonese bibles translate it as 『誠心所願』, and old Hokkien bibles translate it as 『心正所願』.

I am thinking since the word literally means “(to have faith that) may it be so”, then the preposition 此 ought to feature somewhere within the phrase. As such, I figured the most concise version would be 『誠願如此』.

Comments welcome.

[skylee]

Why would we need another version when 阿們 is so widely used and understood?

[Hofmann]

Because it's a transliteration?

[Iriya]

南无 (na1 mo2) is also a transliteration, but I've never heard of anyone being upset about it.

Truth to be told, some of very popular Buddhist texts are nothing but transliterations from 梵语, e.g. the famous 大悲咒.

[Michaelyus]

In Old English (pre-1066), soþlice ('soth-li-che') meant truly or verily, and was used for the translation of 'Amen' as well as the other instances where it is often translated 'truly' or 'verily'. Wycliffe's translation into Middle English (1395) uses "be it doon" ("be it done" in modern orthography), although "Amen" is used as well. The consistent standard modern English 'translation' is "so be it".

I think there could be many possible translations into Chinese - 誠心所願、誠願如此 are all perfectly intelligible. To capture the 'certainty' that the Hebrew has, I've also seen 確實如此 as well.

Of course, for liturgical use transliterations will certainly be maintained.

[Insula Formosa]

I think a bisyllabic word is preferable for such a simple concept. Four letters for "Amen" is too clumsy for my taste.

[Demonic_Duck]

Because it's a transliteration?

But so is "amen".

[xiaocai]

Because it's a transliteration?

Does it mean that we also need better translation for 鸦片, 狮子, 佛陀, etc.?

[Hofmann]

Sometimes you read too much into things. The OP asked for a translation. That's it.

[Mark Yong]

skylee wrote:

Why would we need another version when 阿們 is so widely used and understood?

Iriya wrote:

南无 (na1 mo2) is also a transliteration, but I've never heard of anyone being upset about it.

Michaelyus wrote:

Of course, for liturgical use transliterations will certainly be maintained.

You are right, we don’t need another version per se, and these transliterations are already well-accepted and deeply-rooted. It was purely an academic question, i.e. if someone were to ask, “How would you best express the meaning of Amen 『阿們』 in Chinese?”, how would one respond?

Michaelyus wrote:

...although "Amen" is used as well. The consistent standard modern English 'translation' is "so be it".

That is the key difference between Amen in English vs. 『阿們』 in Chinese. ‘Amen’ has pretty much been adopted into the English lexicon - “Amen to that!” being the most common example of its usage. In contrast, we don’t say, 『嘩、眞的是阿們、啊！』 (although people sometimes do say 『哦彌陀佛！』 as a sign of relief).

Michaelyus wrote:

To capture the 'certainty' that the Hebrew has, I've also seen 確實如此 as well.

The problem I see with 『確實』 is that it implies that the action has already been done (i.e. past tense), rather than a hope that it shall be done (i.e. future tense). That said, an interesting point.

Insula Formosa wrote:

I think a bisyllabic word is preferable for such a simple concept. Four letters for "Amen" is too clumsy for my taste.

Well, conciseness was my aim in the translation of ‘Amen’ into Chinese, hence my limiting it to four (4) characters. If you want it shorter than that, then the best I can think of is to drop the auxiliary words like 『如此』 and 『所』, and the ‘re-clarification’ words (e.g. 誠 functions perfectly well by itself as the word for ‘sincere’, without requiring compounding with 心), and just leave it as 『誠願』. There, two morphemes for two syllables - 彼此彼此.

xiaocai wrote:

Does it mean that we also need better translation for 鸦片, 狮子, 佛陀, etc.?

I’ll take them one-by-one:

1. 鴉片: I would let this one pass, on the basis that the English language also accepts ‘tea’ as the transliteration of 茶, and not come up with some wordy contrived jargon like ‘leaf beverage’. That said, I do believe there is a colloquial term for ‘opium’, i.e. 『福壽膏』? Japanese uses 『麻藥』, but that might be too generic.

2. 獅子: Sorry, I think I am missing something here... isn’t 獅 already the legitimate word for ‘lion’?

3. 佛陀: Again, on the basis that ‘Jesus’ is transliterated in just about every other language, I will not push the issue. That said, if someone were to ask, “What does ‘Buddha’ mean in Chinese”, I would go for 『覺悟者』. That’s what ‘Buddha’ means, anyway - ‘The Enlightened One’.

Hoffmann wrote:

Sometimes you read too much into things. The OP asked for a translation. That's it.

Thank you, Hoffmann. My original post was precisely that - an academic question on translation.

[Kobo-Daishi]

Dear all,

Mark Yong wrote:

xiaocai wrote:

Does it mean that we also need better translation for 鸦片, 狮子, 佛陀, etc.?

2. 獅子: Sorry, I think I am missing something here... isn’t 獅 already the legitimate word for ‘lion’?

I looked 獅子 up in the Guoyu Cidian ( http://dict.revised.moe.edu.tw/ ) put out by the Republic of China (Taiwan)'s Ministry of Education, and for the second definition they have:

菩薩。喻世明言˙卷二十九˙月明和尚度柳翠：「無福向獅子光中，享天上之逍遙；有分去駒兒隙內，受人間之勞碌。」

XXXXX

So it appears that it also means "bodhisattva". http://en.wikipedia....iki/Bodhisattva

They cite 喻世明言 by 馮夢龍.

If you enter 喻世明言 in Baidu ( http://www.baidu.com/ ), it'll automatically open a copy of the book that you can click and read. Unfortunately, it's in simplified characters.

Here's a link to the Wikipedia entry for 馮夢龍 ( http://en.wikipedia....i/Feng_Menglong ).

It doesn't seem to do him justice because The Indiana Companion To Traditional Chinese Literature seems to make a great deal about him.

http://i43.tinypic.com/20utvd1.png

http://i40.tinypic.com/28vt2dl.png

http://i44.tinypic.com/14c5qmb.png

http://i42.tinypic.com/2ah9qx0.png

...was the personification of popular Chinese literature.

...an ardent champion of popular literature in its numerous forms, he contributed more to its preservation, growth, and diversity than any individual in premodern China.

Also, in ancient Chinese, 師 was used for 獅. The Han shu and the Hou Han Shu.

Kobo-Daishi, PLLA.