Graduate School in China – A History Major’s Perspective

[Angelina]

Last year.

[Chris Two Times]

I don't think that anyone will look down upon you for doing your PhD in China

 

I respectfully disagree. I think many people (both Chinese and American) would look down on me for doing the PhD on the Mainland instead of in my home country. Quite frankly, I think it would raise eyebrows and many people would question it. Like it or not, the "pedigree" of one's PhD-granting institution still holds a tremendous amount of weight in the job search, even with a record of doing interesting and ground-breaking research.

 

What's always interesting to me is to find out where professors did their doctoral degrees. Quite a few Chinese professors I have encountered have done their doctoral degrees in Hong Kong, Canada, the US, the UK and NOT on the Mainland. That's very telling to me.

 

Finding a good advisor, quality of training, good collegial environment--these are all very valid points and indeed that is what I will be specifically looking at when I target specific programs. I feel confident that I would more likely find what I would be looking for from a U.S. program rather than from a Mainland program.

 

Of course, no one is going to hire me solely because I went to a U.S. institution. I don't expect that either, but I do expect that U.S. institutions will better give me those experiences that will build my CV and that people will look at later. Again, I am not so sure I will get such experiences from (m)any Mainland institutions.

 

I haven't ruled out China, but to be honest, entering a PhD program on the Mainland would be a last-ditch effort for me, after I would have tried and failed again and again to get into a suitable U.S. program with an appropriate advisor. Regarding the PhD on the Mainland, I would only be interested in one particular Mainland program working with this one professor (a professor with whom I have already collaborated and in a program where I am already known).

 

I hold kdavid's words on this matter in very high regard, because he is out there doing it and also, his words mirror the words of my colleagues and acquaintances who have done doctoral work. I am greatly interested in Fellowships, Fulbrights, and other post-doc work and I think a PhD from a Mainland university would close those doors to such post-doc work in my face.

 

I also think kdavid's points about procuring proper research materials is extremely valid. Just dealing with a wonky Internet alone...how many times have I tried to get a journal article that I've wanted to read and failed because the Internet wouldn't let me? At least I am doing this in my spare time to do some "leisurely scholarly reading" (ha! whatever that means) so it didn't really matter that I didn't get the article, but how is it going to be for me when I need that article and have to read it but can't get it, simply because the Internet sucks?

 

I recall a discussion I had with a buddy several years ago about this very topic of doing the PhD on the Mainland. We concurred that if we had made the firm decision "to go all in" and had decided to personally invest 100% in China and spend the rest of our days living and working on the Mainland, then it would be a consideration. I have not made that firm decision (and I really don't think I ever will). The world's a big place and there is a lot of different kinds of work that I may want to do in other countries as well; I really believe I will have a better chance of getting such opportunities with the PhD from the U.S. and not from the Mainland.

 

Just my two jiao commenting on my personal situation only.

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[Angelina]

I hold kdavid's words on this matter in very high regard, because he is out there doing it

So am I. I am planning to apply to do a PhD next year, after I get my MA in June.

Like it or not, the "pedigree" of one's PhD-granting institution still holds a tremendous amount of weight in the job search, even with a record of doing interesting and ground-breaking research.

I would always choose interesting research over relatively superficial things, looking for an advisor right now.

A few years ago I told a friend that I saw a program that looked like it was made for her. It was just a:

"Look, you might be interested"

She has two passions, this program brings both of them together.

She went for it. She is now a Gates Scholar. I am happy for her because she is doing what she loves doing. The fellowship is there to help her do what she has always been doing.

[somethingfunny]

For a lot of people, something like a job search is not a "relatively superficial thing", but rather, the most important thing.  It would be nice if we could just think about whats most interesting, or most exciting, but that's not always the case and it is often very advisable to make a compromise.  Especially for someone like Chris who isn't looking to commit his entire future to China, it makes much more sense to go for an internationally more well-regarded institution, even if it does mean he doesn't get to work with his first choice adviser, or in his first choice field.

 

Personally, after China, I'd love to go to the States and I think I'd probably get a better education there and it would open more doors, but living outside of my own country for the additional years would also close a lot of other doors.

 

Not to mention all the things both Chris and David have said about internet quality, library resources, academic environment etc.

[Angelina]

Right, I might end up going to the States as well. To GRE or not to GRE?

Going to a place where it would open more doors might mean some other doors will close. Does it mean we should intentionally slam shut some doors, in other words, to burn our bridges? I would never do it. No matter where I decide to go next.

It is fine to be realistic.

Library resources have improved over the past few years. Especially when it comes to English-language sources.

[Chris Two Times]

GRE!

 

I will be taking the GRE in the summer of 2016. I will have to prepare for it next spring. Oof. 

 

Haha! Whenever I say those three letters, I say it in a manner that sounds like growling...GERRRRRRRRR!

 

I will definitely be adding oil to that endeavor to try to get the best possible score and to see what becomes of this chase for the doctorate.

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[somethingfunny]

I think everyone needs to decide what the best path to take is with respect to their own personal goals.  I don't think there's necessarily such a thing as slamming any doors shut in this case, but I can imagine doing a PhD in China would close some pretty tightly, where as doing it in the US would keep most of them largely open.

[Chris Two Times]

I think everyone needs to decide what the best path to take is with respect to their own personal goals.  I don't think there's necessarily such a thing as slamming any doors shut in this case, but I can imagine doing a PhD in China would close some pretty tightly, where as doing it in the US would keep most of them largely open.

 

Agreed.

 

I think doing a PhD on the Mainland may be able to open some doors for me, but I do feel that doing a PhD in the States would open many more.

 

As for closing doors, I think the PhD on the Mainland would close many more doors on me than would a PhD from the U.S.

 

Again, I am just commenting on my own personal situation as I size up my ambitions and goals for after the PhD. A PhD from a U.S. institution would better help me get those things that I am eyeing for after the PhD. If I were to go for a PhD from a Mainland institution, I would have to kiss those ambitions good bye and have to get some new ambitions...maybe a bad thing, maybe not.

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[Angelina]

I think everyone needs to decide what the best path to take is with respect to their own personal goals.

Definitely. I just wanted to update certain information, e.g. about access to resources. David was a grad student in Mainland China a few years ago, I am a grad student in China now. I uploaded a manual on how to use CASHL somewhere in the thread. A lot of things have improved, it would not be fair to disregard everything. Even if going to China would mean closing certain doors, at least not as many as few years ago when people had problems finding English-language literature. JSTOR is working pretty fine.

Anyway, I am still trying to come up with a decent research proposal (or SOP) and looking for the right PhD program for me.

[Chris Two Times]

I do believe kdavid just finished up his M.A. degree a little more than a year ago (in May/June of 2014?). How much has really changed in a little more than a year?

 

Nonetheless, a good point has been raised: checking access to materials at individual universities. It seems to be something that should be brought up when investigating programs. If I recall correctly, kdavid mentioned the disappointing library situation at his host institution (HeiDa). The library at my host institution in Beijing seems to be adequate; however, will I have access to those materials? I would definitely ask questions about this beforehand.

 

I would think the access to resources theme is not a time issue (last year vs. this year) but rather an institutional issue. I guess some places have it a lot better than others.

 

As for JSTOR working, it's working...until it isn't working. Who knows if that would or could change?

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[Chris Two Times]

Anyway, I am still trying to come up with a decent research proposal (or SOP) and looking for the right PhD program for me.

 

May it work out for you, Angelina. Best wishes and add oil!

 

Warm regards,

Chris Two Times

[Angelina]

How much has really changed in a little more than a year?

My university has a much bigger budget this year

Here is an example of some random book series on diversity in education I downloaded now.

(If everything else fails, you can always ask: "求《insert book title》" and your Chinese friends can help you find what you need. )

[洋人丹]

Institutions vary greatly...

 

Mine has an enormous selection of foreign language books in a number of languages. I've been able to find some pretty uncommon stuff on Functional and Cognitive linguistics. 

 

Chinese books also have tons of good stuff, and the ancient manuscripts section has anything you need to find if you want old manuscripts. I've been pretty impressed by it.

 

The institution also gives you access to jstor and a couple other databases of both Chinese and non-Chinese journals and a thesis database. You can download as much as you want for free.

 

I think, like anywhere, connections are still the most important thing to getting a foot in the door, regardless of where you study. If you make connections and are able to show something for your time, I think it's possible to be successful anywhere. You might have to put in a ton of work, but that's how it should be. It might be harder in China, but it certainly isn't impossible. Really I feel like doing what makes you happy is most important. 

 

An example that I probably shouldn't post, but...

 

I know someone who was doing his phd in China. For complicated reasons he decided to leave pretty abruptly halfway through his second year and went home to states. He contacted the leading expert of his field in the states seeing if he could get into a phd program there, and the guy was very interested. Even after leaving a phd program halfway through, it's possible to get into another one in the states. People can run into a lot of hurdles, but if you are determined, you can get where you want to go.

 

I don't think that anyone will look down upon you for doing your PhD in China

 

PhD politics are really complicated. Everyone looks down on everyone else.

[kdavid]

Good question, regarding international students and funding. To be honest, I'm so busy trying to procure funding for myself that I have not looked into this at all. I have one colleague from the UK and another from China. I know from speaking to them that opportunities do exist, but are relatively limited.

[Angelina]

I wonder if you can come back with more information, I will talk to some international PhD students in China.

They will not be allowed to graduate unless they get published, not generally speaking (research work is obviously part of doctoral studies), this is school policy, with clearly specified minimum number of articles and journals.

I do not like this. How much money are international PhD students paid? Is it much more than places where there are no such regulations?

[somethingfunny]

The Chinese students here need to publish a certain number of articles in a certain quality of journal in order to fulfil the requirement of their Master's degree.  I'm under the supervision of the Overseas Office so I don't think I'm going to be held to this requirement.  My plan for the moment is just to keep quiet about it and hope it never gets brought up.

 

Honestly though, the whole thing is a joke and makes a mockery of Chinese academia.  If you told a Master's student in the UK they couldn't graduate without having work published I can only imagine they'd laugh in your face.  I spoke to a classmate of mine and he said he would just be polishing up his undergraduate thesis and sending that off for publication in C刊.  I mean, what's the point?  How many people are actually going to read it?  It's all about quotas and hitting goals.  No-one cares about the quality.  

[Angelina]

Exactly.

I am a master's degree student too, so I will not be held to this requirement. However, I know for sure that PhD students at Zhejiang University are required to publish even if they are not Chinese. I will ask them about funding opportunities. Are there any limitations for non-Chinese citizens? If so, to what extent?

[emmanuel]

Personally, I think that publications are important for students. Of course, nobody interested in some childish undergraduate thesis, but it's great for master student and certainly important for PhD student. Some universities require PhD students to publish in peer-reviewed international conference or journal. Actually, that work will be read by reviewers and they will judge your work. 

[anonymoose]

Publications are only important in as far as they are a reflection of the research, which is, or at least should be, the core objective.

 

Requiring a certain quota of publications just for the sake of it serves only to flood the field with a lot of low quality, pointless publications.

[Angelina]

I agree with anonymoose.