Cultural shock first arrived in China

[Joholic]

Haii everyone,

I seldom there ia term "cultur shock" when people come to new country (in this case about china) which is have different cultur with ur country.could you shared what your "culture shock" experiences in china? I have plan to study in china,so hopelly, I can prepare to face this...

[Matty]

I never experienced cutlure shock going to China, the biggest shock I got was that the air in Beijing was horrible (it seems better now). I actually got a bigger shock going back to australia. I had forgotten the ...quality... of a lot of the people there.

[Joholic]

@ matty:whether you mean pollution ? smoke of a vehicle , smoke plant?

[icebear]

In my mind culture shock generally is a negative shock; something you're aghast at, annoyed at, or compare negatively to some feature back home. I found a lot of cultural phenomenon interesting, and at times aggravating, but never to a point that was unbearable or bothersome or worth complaining about to family and friends back home. If you're using a broader definition, i.e. anything different from back home... well, there's plenty. That's the reason for going.

Agreed that the biggest shock for me was going back home - reverse culture shock. Some reasons why: the cost of eating out, the frequency of eating out with a big group of friends, a sense of entitlement among some at work, having to deal with scare-monger attitudes about China/developing countries from people that have never left the US or Europe.

Second to reverse culture-shock was a 500+ 2.5PPM day in Beijing, which thankfully only happened a couple times during my 1+ year there. Besides the pollution I found essentially everything else too damn interesting to be bothered about.

Third, probably the issues surrounding 关系 (guanxi) and how it permeates relationships more deeply than in the West (where it also exists, but more sanitized). As well as what seemed to be very different attitudes towards dating and love, with more extremes of innocent or adulterous behavior. Niether of these was a hangup for me (interesting, actually), but I know it really bothered some expats.

[Sydney Matt]

After reading this article I think I may indeed be experiencing "culture shock", or more specifically, "Stage 2 - Withdrawal or Negotiation Stage", or even more specifically, the "intermittent feelings of anxiety/depression" and "sense of being stuck" bits, but certainly *not* the "frequent tendency to criticise and mock the people and their culture" bit. Timing seems about right too - 3 months in China so far.

I found particularly interesting the author's comment about the "Adjustment Stage", where he says that this stage "often tends to coincide with the acquisition of some Chinese language skills and the ability to minimally communicate around basic needs without assistance"; and further that he still remembers the great sense of comfort he experienced the first time he could use spoken Chinese to tell the taxi driver where he wanted to go.

For me, having arrived in China already knowing some Chinese, enough to study 中级班, well, perhaps this is a contributing factor to my frustrations. On the one hand, I'm a little beyond the thrill of being able to use taxis, buy everyday things, order basic meals etc. (小吃 style, not restaurant style - I gotta admit that even if the menus were in English, I'd still find it complicated to order the right dishes!) However, because native speakers can see my Chinese is okay, they will often talk with me in ways which I still find quite complicated, and (some) make it evident that they're frustrated if I don't understand. Actually, perhaps like many other learners, I'm surprisingly not too bad at reading & writing, while my spoken Chinese is not that far beyond the basics, and the challenge with listening in particular is that it's uncontrolled - unless it's either your teacher or the shop attendant asking whether you have a loyalty card, I feel like they could be saying virtually anything!

On the other hand, despite the assumptions of native speakers, it's actually not always a 听不懂 problem, sometimes I understand what people are saying, it's just that I don't, well, actually understand the concept/reason etc.

I think the other factor is perhaps not exactly the "China" adjustment so much as the "life" adjustment. For the past four plus years after graduating from university, I've been working full time in a corporate environment; now I'm purely a student again, which most definitely has it pros, but thinking about it, perhaps I'm missing that good feeling that comes with "knowing what you're doing", having colleagues or clients ask for advice and recommendations.

I hope this post isn't seen as a rant, really it's one-third me thinking things through, one-third giving others an idea of one person's experience so far, and one-third an invitation for others to comment on these observations from their perspective.

[abcdefg]

On the other hand, despite the assumptions of native speakers, it's actually not always a 听不懂 problem, sometimes I understand what people are saying, it's just that I don't, well, actually understand the concept/reason etc.

Well said!

[Lu]

No culture shocks anymore, but I was pretty culture shocked the first time I came to China. Everything was different, absolutely everything. I was walking around wide-eyed and between shocked and amazed for the first few days taking in all the things that were new, which was everything. The trick is to enjoy the fact that everything is different. Once I got that, it was ok.

[WestTexas]

I started working at a university about a week after arriving in China. Initially, what I found most unnerving about the place was how uniformly the students behaved. The students all went home before 11pm, all woke up early, 90% of them went to class all the time, most of them ate lunch/dinner at the same times, etc. And I missed all the usual college vices: random binge drinking, sex, parties, marijuana, etc. It bothered me that there were no conspicuously drunk students stumbling around at 2am on Friday and Saturday nights. The place seemed unbelievably 'dead'. I didn't learn till later that the students got locked out of their dormitories at 11pm and that was why they all went home early, or that when Chinese students go out all night they go to an internet cafe instead of a kegger. However, it still bothers me that most students will answer the question 'what are you doing this weekend' with 'studying' or 'going home'. Aside from shopping (for girls) and playing online games (for boys, and some of the girls), they really just don't seem to have much fun.

The usual stuff that bothers foreigners, like hawking, spitting, using the bathroom outside, squat toilets etc. did not bother me. Being from a small town in Texas, I quite appreciate the ability to take a leak in various outdoor locations. Many of my relatives dip or chew tobacco, so spitting doesn't really weird me out as long as it isn't directed at me.

The things that bother me about China today are very different from the things that bothered me when I first got here. I find the Chinese standards of female beauty, for example, extremely bizarre. Also, sometimes Chinese people just seem to place less value on having their words accord with facts, like the way a Chinese will sometimes vehemently deny something that is obviously true in order to save face. It also bothers me how a 25-year-old Chinese person will let their parents control them. Or the way pretty much every Chinese person recognizes that the education system here is broken, yet when they or their friend needs to cheat on an exam, it is okay because they have a good excuse. Or the way there are blatant brothels in every city, yet prostitution is supposedly illegal.

The materialism and consumerism in China weird me out too, but these are not unique to China. I feel weird about materialism and consumerism in general. One of my Chinese students last year told me he wanted to move to the United States and get a high-paying job as an accountant so that he could buy a Land Rover. I'll never quite get how someone's goal in life can be to buy a certain brand of car, but there are people like that in the US too.

[edelweis]

@WestTexas: what a coincidence, here's what I read today on Lang8

http://lang-8.com/32...hinese-Students

Every time they ask me what am I going to do this weekend, I have the same answer-- have classes and exams.

[icebear]

The things that bother me about China today are very different from the things that bothered me when I first got here. I find the Chinese standards of female beauty, for example, extremely bizarre.

I'd be interested in hearing more about this (although perhaps it warrants its own thread), especially from people living outside Tier-1 cities. Most of my time has been spent in Shenzhen and Beijing, which perhaps conform more to Western aesthetics; among my young friends there I haven't found wildly unusual tastes when it comes to saying what type of girl is or isn't beautiful. In some cases maybe there are some girls my friends consider ok which I don't, but its rare that the disagreement goes the other way (and I generally find them to be straightforward with me on disagreements). It does seem to be the case that both guys and girls are willing to be much more pragmatic about who they end up marrying. Thoughts?

[rezaf]

Materialism is a serious issue everywhere in the world but it is almost like a religion in China(including the materialistic needs and desires of the parents and children of course). IMHO talking about anything other than that is almost always irrelevant for Chinese people and that was a cultural shock for me.

[外国赤佬]

Yes, 拜金主义 is a huge part of the modern Chinese culture. There are many idioms related to it, like 利欲熏心, 嫌贫爱富, 患得患失, etc.

Many girls would ask you for a material gift (like a cellphone) on the second or third date.

I know an arts student, who is really talented in painting/drawing, she told me that her relatives and friends often discriminate her, because 艺术 is not a "serious profession" and "doesn't pay big money". At least she's a woman, a male artist will probably have a really hard time finding a partner, unless he's already famous.

北京爱情故事 is a good TV drama about the modern Chinese society and how people have to choose between money and love. There are many sayings that make you think. Here's one.: 廉耻不廉价，不是每一个人都资格，有能力讲什么廉耻的，女人只是男人的面子，财富和地位才是男人的脊梁，没有女人的男人还是男人，没有了财富和地位，男人就像是被抽去了脊梁的软体动物，抬不起头，直不起腰来。(Note: I don't agree with this viewpoint!)

And another one: 没有物质的爱情是不存在的，因为物质和爱情是密不可分的，是紧密相连的。

More here.

[skylee]

患得患失

This is related to 拜金主義? I don't think so.

I know an arts student, who is really talented in painting/drawing, she told me that her relatives and friends often discriminate her, because 艺术 is not a "serious profession" and "doesn't pay big money".

I think this view is not unique to China/Chinese.

[icebear]

I know an arts student, who is really talented in painting/drawing, she told me that her relatives and friends often discriminate her, because 艺术 is not a "serious profession" and "doesn't pay big money".

－－－

I think this view is not unique to China/Chinese.

Fully agreed. Unless the talent is painfully obvious and commercially viable, most art students/graduates are met with some degree of derision and skepticism. I've know a few, and except for one that already had a budding career mid-university (i.e. selling paintings for $10k+) the rest put up with a lot of grief from non-artists.

[WestTexas]

Western aesthetics; among my young friends there I haven't found wildly unusual tastes when it comes to saying what type of girl is or isn't beautiful.

For the most part, when I see a hot woman walking down the street I'll notice Chinese men eyeing her too. I suppose its a few things about the ideal that weird me out, along with some of the female celebrities. Like:

1)Eyes. Big eyes with double-eyelids. Not to be crass, but in terms of attractiveness and sex appeal I feel like eyes are probably the least important part of a woman's body. I feel like there are good-looking women with big eyes and small eyes, but ultimately eyes are a very small part of the total picture. Also, the double-eyelids thing is extremely weird. I had no idea what this was, and I had to look at before/after photos from cosmetic surgery places to even know what it was. I still can't look at a woman on a street and really tell if she has double or single eyelids. I find the whole thing extremely strange.

2)Skin - white skin. Skin color is not really my thing, but if anything, I prefer dark skin.

3)Super thin - again, not really my thing. Thick legs and a curvy figure are the way to go.

Sometimes I think these ideals are adhered to more closely by Chinese women than by Chinese men. I think if a curvy, large-breasted woman with dark skin and small eyes walked down the street in China, most Chinese men would still think she was attractive, but Chinese girls might be like "Oh she's so dark" etc.

The female celebrities weird me out. I basically feel like all of them either (1)Look the same or (2)Look strange. Pretty much every woman you see on a TV commercial has white skin, big eyes, a tiny head, and black hair. They all look the same to me. Then a Chinese person will show me a picture of some female celebrity and say "Oh, isn't she beautiful," and I'm like, uhh, she looks exactly the same as all the other female celebrities. Some of them look like aliens, too - white skin, tiny head, huge eyes, super skinny - sounds like an alien to me. Take a look at this link, the guazi lian face:http://laowaichinese.net/the-four-faces-of-chinese-people-women-really.htm The woman looks scary as hell. This is what I mean when I say some of them look like aliens. Or look at Fan Bingbing. She has stupidly big eyes and her skin is whiter than white paint. That's not natural, at all. I think it looks strange and very plastic.

[rezaf]

I know an arts student, who is really talented in painting/drawing, she told me that her relatives and friends often discriminate her, because 艺术 is not a "serious profession" and "doesn't pay big money".

That's about to change. In places like zhejiang super rich people are getting even more wealthy. Many of them are tired of buying luxury goods like jewelry, bags, watches, ... and buying paintings is their new hobby. According to one of my relatives who owns a successful gallery in Shanghai this market is growing very fast and as most of the buyers have no knowledge about art, it is a very profitable business for dealers who have good connections because they can literally sell anything to them as long as they can convince them that those paintings would give them more mianzi.

[外国赤佬]

@WestTexas

These girls don't look weird to me at all. But then again, I'm not the one who prefers dark skin. Are you black yourself, by any chance? Just curious, that would explain your tastes.

But I agree completely with you on the weight issue. All Chinese girls are crazy about losing weight. Their ideal is 骨感. They would show me pics of their friends, who they consider their role model, and it's just disturbing. No ass, no hips, really really thin legs. But yes, I think this might just be a girl thing. I really doubt it that the Chinese men don't want their woman to be at least a bit 肉感.

[rezaf]

Even the 古代 Chinese had a very strange taste. One thing that I can never understand is why they would torture girls to have pretty small feet like these:

[icebear]

@WestTexas

I largely agree with the 3 points you raised, although I also agree that I think its more a "Chinese women compete on those points" than Chinese men are super into them (at least the ones I know) - they all have pretty Western thoughts on what looks hot - a healthy tan, athletic body with nice breasts, good skin. I've heard a ton of comments about tan skin looking bad, exclusively from women. Men never seem to complain if the color is on a nice body. I'd be curious if this changes a lot in x-Tier cities or the countryside, and by how much, since in absolute terms those populations may be the ones defining a lot of the standards we see in celebrities and TV.

@外国赤佬

Pretty sure WestTexas is referring generally to tan skinned (on Chinese girls), not (necessarily) black skin. I agree with both you and him that in general most Chinese girls are a little too weight conscious. Not that I prefer the average in the US, for example, but I think a majority of Chinese girls would look great with an extra 3-5kg on them, which I think they'd perceive as being a huge aesthetic loss (and I'd perceive similarly on a lot of US girls).

It'd be interesting to hear the perspectives of some Chinese women's views on beauty, both their own and mens. I'm curious how that may differ from the stereotypical athletic/[slight] muscle worship among most 20-something girls in the West; in China it seems way more common to see a decent girl with a rubbish guy, and sometimes clearly not for economic reasons.

[外国赤佬]

Chinese girls like their men tall. As much tall as possible. He could be 2 heads taller than her and it would still be fine for them. A head taller is usually the norm. And they like their men heavy. Whether it's the muscle or fat usually doesn't matter. Men should be big (高大).

I find it really weird to see 160cm girls walking down the street with their 185 cm boyfriends. How do they kiss? The height thing is also pretty strange, they're really obsessed about it, they would often talk about how tall their friends' boyfriends are, and how is it so important. If you ask them why, they would give you bullshit reasons, e.g. how it's good for the genes, like the Chinese people are not very tall, and it's very important for them to make kids that are as much tall as possible.

A Chinese girl usually would never date a man that isn't at least 5-10 cm taller than her. It's the first criteria (before age and money) when choosing a partner.