Can someone explain where I went wrong with the 了 particle?

[tooironic]

I'm not a native speaker, but my intuition tells me quite strongly that 上个星期我回来家了跟父母过圣诞节。is just weird. Why? Because my brain knows that I've never seen 了 and 跟 next to each other before. The most common structure is A跟B and then some kind of verb, and sometimes this may be followed by a 了 depending on the situation.

Hope that makes sense.

[yialanliu]

I'm not a native speaker, but my intuition tells me quite strongly that 上个星期我回来家了跟父母过圣诞节。is just weird. Why? Because my brain knows that I've never seen 了 and 跟 next to each other before. The most common structure is A跟B and then some kind of verb, and sometimes this may be followed by a 了 depending on the situation.

I am not a big fan of this answer because

我跟了你之后就走丢了。

The usage of the first 了 is for emphasis to show that I only got lost after following you which also implies if I did not follow you I probably would not have gotten lost.

These examples of emphasis happens pretty frequently.

上个星期我回了家跟父母过圣诞节。<- nope, see above post about action series.

Actually, from speaking this, it seems okay to me.

[陳德聰]

你回了家就跟父母过圣诞节吗？ 上个星期？

[shinewind]

过+了is very common usage....if you don't believe it, try to google it and numbers of pages will be lined up - most importantly, all in Chinese.

One guy says Chinese prefer 2 or 4 phrases. Well not exactly. If you are talking about sayings, idioms, poems, there will be similar preference (like in the ancient poems they have 5 words/7words patterns.). If it concerns nothing like that preference hardly exists.

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It seems to be a universal truth that the “small words” of a certain language will be the toughest for one to learn. I suggest you accumulate little by little at the end of which you don’t really need the rules. And the rules, honestly speaking, will be hard to digest and sometimes don’t really help.

The most fundamental meaning 了bears is to suggest the completion of a certain status, action, etc. Therefore, in order to translate a “verb+了” sentence very often you will have to use PERFECT tense which is not a MUST when it’s “adj. +了”.

Verb+了: 雨停了。-the rain has stopped (perfect).

Adj.+了: 叶子黄了。 - The leaves are yellow.

The tricky part is that there will be (also very often) exceptions.

他哭了.- he is crying (present progressive)

我走了。- I will take off/am taking off (also pp. or future – because it’s possible that you will be saying that while taking off or saying that first then leave).

下雨了。 - It is raining. (pp.)

So, to conclude, 了can be used under most tenses. And I think there will be hardly any rules to define when to use which.

Second, let’s see if 了can be placed in the middle of the sentence with verbs to go after it.

洗了睡觉。

吃了做作业。

It obviously can and doesn’t have to be put after the final verb.

My suggestions of learning tough “small words” is that you learn by the actual speaking of it and try to conclude on your own instead of turning for rules. The rule (in this case will be pages or more) only will be time consuming and confusing.

[yialanliu]

洗了睡觉。

吃了做作业。

I don't think this works. Most sentences wouldn't be able to have those words without something in between.

洗了澡再去睡觉

吃了之后就去做作业

Both ways of filler can be used interchangebly but hopefully you get the idea.

Next, using idioms from poetry and comparing 2/4 word phrases is very different.

I will say this the last time, this preference is true and I can't explain. If you really want an explanation google it or something but it's beyond what I can explain. In reality, it's just something I hear and know, not some rule. So it's like you say, but if your not a native, you can't hear it, which is why when asked about language proficiency, there's a difference between fluent and native speaking ability.

[Michaelyus]

I think those two sentences are perfectly acceptable given the right context. They're just very elliptical, so pretty much require the context. They fit into the narrative use of aspectual 了 as demonstrated above.

The preference for 2/4-syllable groupings is well attested in Mandarin prosody. In actual fact however, it is subsumed under the overriding preference for maintenance of a trochaic rhythm (with respect to stress rather than length per se, much like Italian). There are indeed linguistic 'laws' that have been discovered that outline the scope that the rhythm can cover (introductory unstressed syllables that seem amphibrachic are acceptable; removal of the last unstressed syllable, or catalexis, is common, as long as no spondees result; the restrictions on reduplication seem to primarily be prosodically motivated) as well as strategies that are adopted (removal or addition of coverbs and other serial verb constructions, expansion of verbal objects etc.). Of course, from a linguistics point of view, an interesting question (across all languages) is to what extent is it that prosody that affects the grammar or the reverse.

[马盖云]

I dare anyone to argue with THAT! ^^^^^^^

[Michaelyus]

Well maybe someone should have - I've already found one mistake in my own comment!

[renshanrenhai]

Normally, the "了" is often attached to the end of a sentence to show the sign of perfect tense.

So your original sentence seems to be a broken sentence. If I was asked to correct your sentence I would add a comma after the "了" to make it sound more smooth. 上个星期我回家了，跟父母过圣诞节。