Cantonese !!

[skylee]

Quest, can you see the hyperlink in #39? I copied the character from that link.

[Quest]

No, I can't, maybe it's my simplified font set, but I thought this board converts everything to unicode.

[geraldc]

Currently on holiday in HK with family.

My dad really doesn't like the way that so many adverts are written in Cantonese, as he thinks the Chinese writing standard in HK is dropping.

So far he's complained about:

A poster for a McDull film, where he thinks that mainland tourists wont be able to understand what the poster is talking about. If I see it again, I'll note it down.

An anti drugs poster that has in big letters "系咪 friends 先" which he disliked as not only for the use of Cantonese, but for the use of English too.

My dad thinks the use of the written Cantonese will just confuse mainlanders, whereas I think it ads a touch of mystery and glamour for the mainland tourist to enjoy

[Quest]

系咪 friends 先

The ending particle/sentence modifier 先 here (which has no real meaning and doesn't mean first or before) might help explain why in Cantonese, 先 comes after 我走 in 我走先. The two different usages of 先 might have merged. If you use the full word 首先 instead of just 先, then it has to come before the verb.

[skylee]

geraldc, welcome to HK. How do you like the place? (strange thing, everytime I return I feel glad, well not considering the depression from having to return to work ...)

I don't agree with your father's view (as whether mainland visitors can or cannot understand cantonese writing is not my concern, and English is part of our vocab, really), but I hate cantonese writing too.

Anyways, enjoy your stay.

[Ian_Lee]

Commercials are very special cases since they must be very colloquial and make you feel intimate.

In fact, spoken announcement in public places, i.e. subway station, the versions between Mandarin and Cantonese are exactly identical -- Mandarin Chinese format spoken in Cantonese which you would not daily use.

Actually everybody grown up in HK takes for granted in this variation except other Cantonese speakers from overseas. My kid used to ask me what the subway announcement means even though it is spoken in Cantonese.

P.S. Actually I feel more irritated in the choice of English words in the subway announcement, i.e. "Alight" -- which my kid also asked me what it means.

[skylee]

得閒 = 有空 (think 偷得浮生半日閒)

[skylee]

柴娃娃 = 不認真 / 鬧着玩 / 胡鬧

[skylee]

出貓 = 作弊

[o9game]

Hope this help you memorising~

廣東人 like 煲湯，and 煲湯 is well known as a time-consuming stuff.

So that, "煲” means taking time to do something.

Also, 廣東人 not only love 煲湯， but also enjoy it.

Therefore, 煲 could be understood as "enjoy" thus you could see phrase like "煲煙”which actually dun take a lot of time doing it.

[skylee]

And 煲碟 means spending a lot of time enjoying/watching DVDs/VCDs.

[Quest]

I dont think 煲 means to enjoy.... just spending a long time to do something.

I've been wondering, etymologically, are Dim 點 and Zeme 怎麽 related? are 乜 and 什麽 related? How did we end up with 哪 and 邊 etc and drop 何? Why is it 裏 in Mandarin but 度 in Cantonese, which usage is older? 處 is still used in both, but 方 rarely.

[Mugi]

Quest, 點 (C:dim2) is thought to be a contraction of 底物; 乜 (C:mat7) and 麽 (M:me) both come from 物. Don't know about 什/甚 or 怎 though. I suspect both 哪 and 邊 have non-sinitic roots, though I have no evidence to back up my suspicion Likewise, I don't think 度 is sinitic... 裏 first appears in literature during the Northern Song period, which means it must have existed in the spoken language of the literati well before then.

[o9game]

I've been wondering, etymologically, are Dim 點 and Zeme 怎麽 related? are 乜 and 什麽 related? How did we end up with 哪 and 邊 etc and drop 何? Why is it 裏 in Mandarin but 度 in Cantonese, which usage is older? 處 is still used in both, but 方 rarely.

These phrases in Mandarin and Cantonese are mostly from Oral speaking and are not considered as Formal written CHinese. This is why it will not give u a clue why they are so different from each other as different regions are likely to have different slangs.

Also in japanese, you can see loads of words in Kanji but it sometimes gives an completely different idea from your literal understanding of Chinese. In the acient time, there wasn't English. Though people dun understand each other they could still communicate with each other using Written Chinese across the Asia. No wonder Cantonese could sounds so different from mandarin whilst they both could be written same way and so are Korean and Japnese.

Look up some formal thingy like history stuff will give you a clue wot Proper Chinese like. But DO NOT go for the Communist CHina ones as it is known as the worst Official Chinese in all time.

ps. 哪裡（邊度）proper way in Chinese is 何處. Many people, even Chinese people have got an Wrong idea of formal Chinese mistaking it as Acient CHinese.

Using informal Chinese in formal publication was considered to be rude or tramp-class literature before the Chinese revolution which is known as 54 revolution.

[Quest]

Nice Site for Chinese languages: http://ccl.pku.edu.cn/yyxlc.asp?item=1&page=6&expand=309

本文认为香港粤语的疑问代词“点”[tim35] 源自六朝江东方言的“底物”，并尝试解释：（1）“底物”如何由“问事物”发展到粤语“问性状”的功能；（2）“底物”合音为“点”的过程。

[Mugi]

Thanks for the link Quest!

[skylee]

咿咿哦哦 = 吞吞吐吐 / 支吾以對

[skylee]

齋 = 素菜

齋 = 單單 (e.g. 齋講 talk without any action, 齋睇 look/watch without any action, not buying, not touching ...)

[skylee]

When you want some ingredient to be excluded from the food/drink you are ordering, you can use the word "走". Like -

走青/走蔥 - exclude spring onion (e.g when ordering noodles/congee)
走糖 - exclude sugar (e.g. when ordering coffee/tea)
走蠔油 - exclude oyster sauce (e.g. when ordering vegetable)

[calibre2001]

While we are discussing cantonese, I like to clarify what this lady is saying in this video (

) at 7:53.

She begins "hou saam 你冇攞呢啲嘢出來.........."

Mandarin subtitles say 請你不要拿這些事來開玩笑

What does 'hou saam' in the context above mean? Also what characters are they? Thanks and sorry for hijacking!