Getting pronunciation right from the start

[Zorlee]

Hi!

First of all, thank you guys so much for this awesome forum. I've been sneaking around for quite a while, but I haven't posted anything until now.



I've been studying Japanese intensely for around 2.5 years. Even though I have a long way to go to feel 100% comfortable with my Japanese, I've reached a pretty high level in proficiency (I passed JLPT N1 this December). I've always wanted to learn Chinese and I'm considering starting soon. For Japanese, I just used Anki and entered all unknown words into it until I was able to read books etc. It was pretty tough in the beginning, but now it has become second nature to enter new words.

However, with Chinese I won't have too much time on my hands. I'm thinking 1-2 hours a day max. I don't mind going at a slow pace, the only thing I care about is quality learning and not incorporating bad habits. Where would you guys recommend me to start? I'm thinking about working through a textbook (probably Integrated Chinese or something) while entering words and phrases into Anki. But I really, really don't want to incorporate bad habits when it comes to pronunciation, so which books / exercises would you guys recommend for this?

I know how to go about learning words and grammar, but all the horror-stories regarding people not being able to fix their bad habits in their Chinese pronunciation have scared me a little...

I guess what I really want is an approach that can help me get a good pronunciation (tones etc) so that from there on I can continue learning in the same way I did with Japanese.

Thank you guys so much for your time.

I'm really looking forward hearing your thoughts on this.

Zorlee

[T-revor]

Wow, with 1-2 hours a day you will make really good progress.

There are tons of answers to this question. I came across an article recently that is in-line with my own experience. I think her fourth point is her strongest: Invest in 1-on-1 training. Nothing is more useful in training your brain to think in a new language than actually speaking. Having said that, i do have a soft spot in my heart for Wang Peng and Li You from the old integrated Chinese audio tapes. I thought those were great.

In short, follow your own advice. Get started with integrated Chinese, start building (or borrowing) Anki decks and then really, really, really -- you should pay someone to talk to you.

Edit: Congratulations on your mastering of Japanese. Very difficult.

[anonymoose]

I think learning to read and write Chinese, and learning to pronounce are two really distinct skills. I don't see why you can't just use the same methods you used for learning to read Japanese for Chinese. Just make sure that when you do come to speaking, that you give due attention to the pronunciation from the beginning.

For what it's worth, I learnt to read and write Chinese (albeit to only a basic level) before I learnt how to pronounce and speak it.

[imron]

I think learning to read and write Chinese, and learning to pronounce are two really distinct skills

I would go as far as to say they are *three* really distinct skills

[GaryM]

I am not sure that I can contribute much with any authority, since I can't speak Chinese yet, but coming from some knowledge of the Japanese language, I probably had a similar perspective. I don't have the depth of experience that other people have, but as a starting point I did two things.

Firstly, found a nice series of text-books with audio CD's that spend quite a large proportion of their time addressing pronunciation. I settled with the "New Standard Chinese" and "Pep up your Chinese". Although these appear not to be as main-stream as popular as some other books, I was in a book shop in Shanghai and found that I liked them more than many others on offer. The second thing was to start using Skritter. With your Japanese character skills you should recognize most of the characters, but Skritter has the audio pronunciation of the character. The audio for the example sentences is terrible, I think that must be using some text to speech software, but for learning the pronunciation of single characters it is useful. I spent a few weeks just using Skritter and pronouncing the characters repeatedly. At least this gives you the basics of pinyin.

Obviously none of this is intended to replace any of the other advice that you have been given! This is just what I did as a starting point, not immediately having access to a Chinese language partner or teacher.

[roddy]

Edited the title - correct me if I'm wrong, but the fact you've studied Japanese isn't relevant, you just want to know how to get the Chinese pronounced properly.

[navaburo]

I would recommend following a (good) pinyin+audio course for a while. Coming from Japanese, you are likely to over-focus on the characters in a character text, and thus be distracted from improving your weaker points. A pinyin-text will give you a base in basic grammar and pronunciation.

I recommend Julian Wheatley's book. The introduction very intellegently explains how to pronounce any pinyin syllable, and there are free recordings from the author online for much of the material. If you want to try before you buy, you can download PDFs of an older edition at the MIT OCW website.

Enjoy!

(And let us know how your SRS strategy works in this case.)

[OneEye]

I'll recommend the same thing I recommend to everyone who asks this question. The Pronunciation and Romanization Module from FSI Standard Chinese is still the best thing I've seen for pronunciation. It's boring and dry and old, but it's excellent. This is also a great resource.

[DespikableMi]

Learning Pinyin and focusing on the language should be the first option. After that you should learn to recognize the commonly used characters. The stroke order of Hanzi and Kana or Kanji are similar in most cases so knowing Japanese make learning Hanzi stroke order easier. Therefore, I wouldn't recommend learning to write characters yet as you can pick it up quickly after you become fluent in the language. Adding to that, Pinyin input is another great tool. Assuming that by then you understand the language and Pinyin well enough, you can begin typing Chinese characters using Pinyin. This method assist you in choosing the right word and recognizing characters. In fact, this also allows you to develop writing skills such as essay writing first. On the other hand, learning to write first delay the development of such skills because you'll often encounter words that you know but can't write. Although you'll have to learn to write chinese characters at some point, I'd still recommend spending more time in learning the language first.

[Zorlee]

Wow! Thank you guys so much for your answers!

I really appreciate it!

I just downloaded the FSI course. I'll try to work hard on the pronunciation part of that one, then start Integrated Chinese.

I hope this will be a good starting point!

[Mactuary]

Beware of Pinyin! I can't stress enough that the "symbols" that are Pinyin are merely that, symbols! Before you etch anything into that speaking/listening part of your brain first listen to some slow speech, I used Pimsleur or FSI should do I think, and figure out yourself what the sounds should be, put on your critical ears. After that approach pinyin with caution, and before confirming what you've just learned check with a native speaker to see if you've pronounced the sounds correctly, lest you get stuck with b, d, g as they are pronounced in English.

I feel very strongly about Pinyin and transliteration in general, look at this thread I created about Pinyin, Pronunciation and Potential Problems. Ganbatte!