Angry and upset that my family never taught me Mandarin...:( Advice please?

[CDN Chinese Gal]

Hi everyone,

I am a Canadian Chinese girl and recently decided that I am going to learn Mandarin.

Growing up, my parents did not put much value about teaching me about my Chinese culture and language. Despite my family knowing many languages and dialects - they only speak to me in English and Hakka (basic level).

Growing up, I have had to suffer through a lot of racism from non-Chinese people and being ridiculed and shamed by Chinese people for not knowing how to speak Mandarin or Cantonese. I am angry, frustrated and ashamed for being "White-washed" "Banana" as many non-Chinese, Chinese, and older relatives call me.

I have recently picked up a book with a CD - and am struggling with the learning. I hope that in time, I am able to have some basic Mandarin language skills. What is moreso frustrating for me, is that my family refuses to speak to me in Mandarin and thinks it is funny that I plan to invest so much time and money into learning.

I am doing this for myself because a Chinese should know how to speak Chinese...I am tired of feeling ashamed and laughed at.

My plan is that one I have some basic understanding of Mandarin - I would like to study in China in a language school.

I am wondering if there are any affordable 1-year intensive language schools in Beijing that have a good reputation. I have searched through many websites and forums, but am disheartened because it seems that there is a lot of shameless self-promotion by staff at various language schools.

I do not want to be looked as a silly foreigner to be taken advantage of...I hope to find some guidance here.

Thanks for your time.

[Meng Lelan]

Don't think of the past, just move on and keep on moving. Ten years ago, many of the heritage learners who went to heritage Chinese schools did not want to be there. I often saw teen girls openly doing their regular schoolwork (which of course was in English) during Chinese school class.

[creamyhorror]

People laughing at you for not knowing Canto or Mandarin are unfair/cruel, since it's not like it's your fault that your parents didn't teach you those in particular. Your family is Hakka, after all, not Cantonese or Northern; and Hakka is a Chinese language too, like Canto and Mandarin. (It's funny that in Singapore [where I am] English is the prestige language and some young people used to not care at all about Chinese. Forget dialects - they didn't even bother to learn Mandarin in school properly.)

By all means go and learn Mandarin. It'll be a fun journey. You can start self-learning while hanging out on these forums and getting opinions on language schools in Beijing. You'll get pretty far if you're motivated.

Best of luck.

[skylee]

I am angry, frustrated and ashamed for being "White-washed" "Banana" as many non-Chinese, Chinese, and older relatives call me.

Don't be. Now that you have grown up you can decide things for yourself. No use blaming others for what has happened.

[feng]

Your story is so common! I know many "ABC" like this.

Putting aside for the minute wether your parents were right or wrong, in lieu of actually talking to them about this, I expect that (however misguided) their intentions were ,they were likely believing that they were acting in your best interest! They may have been trying to ensure your english was at a level you can succeed and do well in a "western country" which many asians (falsely) believe to be the "promised land".

Seriously, talk to them about it.

[yialanliu]

Have you asked your parents why they chose not to teach you Chinese?

At first, my parents didn't really want me to learn so that I would have no desire to return to China since I wouldn't be able to communicate. This was due to the 1989 Tiananmen Crisis and my dad was a university professor at a major Chinese university.

As time went, that was changed especially since my dad started to go back more frequently.

I don't think there's any reason to be upset. They probably had a reason to do that and it'd be good to understand why. Anyways, like all languages, Chinese can be learned and with enough practice, you'll be fine. Sidney Shaprio had great Chinese.

[大肚男]

Nothing can be done about the past, as Meng said "onward and upward"

And let me tell you something, when I first moved to Miami, I used to often get scolded by old hispanic ladies for not being able to speak Spanish, and that my parents should be ashamed for not "teaching me the language of my ancestors".

However, I am an Arab, and I speak Arabic fluently. However, since I am brown, they assumed I was hispanic

Rather than letting their comments get to me, it actually motivated me to learn Spanish, and now, 10 years later, I'm pretty fluent in the language, which was really satisfying and rewarding.

And this is how you should look at it, even if your parents did teach you their native tongue, it would probably been hakka, and you would still be at this point more or less when it comes to speaking Mandarin.

[feihong]

I've already been where you are now. I can tell you that there's no use being angry or upset at your parents. Sometimes negative feelings can motivate you to do certain things, but big undertakings need to be fueled by positive emotions.

I think you're right in trying to get a basic understanding before signing up for an intensive course overseas. However, I would recommend taking a class if possible. The first year is really difficult, and it helps to have other students to study or compete with (depending on your personality).

My experience is similar to yours in the sense that my parents didn't support me much when I started formally learning Chinese (although they didn't oppose it). Basically they wouldn't speak to me in Chinese even if I asked them to. This was disappointing at first, but it didn't matter that much in the long run. As my confidence in my Chinese skills grew, I took the initiative and started speaking to them in Mandarin even if they were replying in English. After a certain amount of time, a switch just flipped in their heads and they started speaking to me in Mandarin.

[anonymoose]

My parents, though not Chinese, both moved to the UK from other countries, and as English is their only common language, we have always spoken English at home. Therefore I cannot speak either of their languages, much to my chagrin.

Anyway, you have reason to feel angry and frustrated, but on the other hand, there's nothing you can do to change the past, so taking charge of your own destiny and deciding to learn Chinese is a positive step, I think, rather than 怨天尤人.

[greenarcher]

Don't worry, ethnic Chinese or Chinese-Filipinos from the Philippines are even more embarassed for having such poor Mandarin skills despite studying the language at least an hour a day for 10 years (Grade 1 to Grade 10). LOL.

[icebear]

I have a similar issue with Spanish - it's my mother's native tongue, but I didn't start learning it until I was nearly 20 (on my own) because in my house we only spoke English (small, rural town in the US and a English-only father); I still only speak it at a conversational/passable level (no where near fluent), which bothers me, but that's life. In the past I occasionally would get the exasperated "How can you not know Spanish!?" or "What a shame!", which bothered me a lot at first, but eventually I just told them they could take it up with my mother if it really bothered them so much. Of course she had her own reasons as well (for example, a first-generation immigrant's belief that I should focus on English and do well in school, her working long hours and me having English speaking babysitters, etc), so I don't know that there is really any well-placed blame. You need to get past that and look forward.

Regarding language schools in Beijing, there are plenty of one year university courses that are reasonably priced (~$3000 USD for two terms, some higher some lower). I suggest you practice a lot on your own, with nearby Chinese, etc until the timing is right for you to make the year commitment.

[roddy]

Moving this, as there's going to be very little discussion about studying in Beijing. I'd suggest you think about what your budget and schedule is, what kind of classes you'd like, what you'd like to learn, etc, then post a new topic for that issue.

[studychinese]

Don't be angry at your parents. If they speak Hakka, then I assume they are Indonesian or Malaysian Chinese. In that case, it is likely they are unable to teach you Mandarin that is understandable by mainland speakers anyway. Think of this as a good thing - you don't have any ingrained bad language habits as a result of learning Hakka tinged Mandarin from your parents.

[jbradfor]

Reading your post, I thought of the many ABC I know that complain about being forced to go to Chinese school on Saturdays......

A couple of other thoughts.

Even if your parents had spoken to you in Mandarin / Hakka while you were growing up, I doubt you would have learned much. Every ABC / CBC I know at best can understand basic spoken Chinese; very few can speak more much, and none can read/write to any extent. The only exception are those that spend some significant time in China as kids. You might disagree, but I don't believe that you would be any different.

being ridiculed and shamed by Chinese people for not knowing how to speak Mandarin or Cantonese.

I can sympathize with this. My wife is a native Cantonese speaker, I have have seen how Mandarin speakers treat her when they realize she can not speak Mandarin, and assume she is ABC, and how their attitude changes when they realize she speaks Cantonese. It's not just Chinese -- I have seen in Japan, for example, their attitude when they assume she is Japanese and also "lost her culture" by not speaking Japanese, and how that attitude changes when they learn she is Chinese and can read/write/speak Chinese. Same as in Korea.

I am doing this for myself because a Chinese should know how to speak Chinese...

You realize of course that you are agreeing with all the Chinese that mock you for not speaking Chinese?

<rant>

I STRONGLY disagree with your attitude. [And that of all the other Chinese that mock you for not knowing Chinese.]

There is no reason that a Chinese growing up in Canada should speak anything other than English.

THERE IS NOTHING GENETIC ABOUT SPEAKING CHINESE. Just because you are ethnically Chinese does not give you any advantage in learning Chinese over, say, me learning Chinese. You might have a practical advantage if growing up you heard a lot of Chinese spoken, but I would have the exact same advantage if I too grew up hearing people speak Chinese.

SPEAKING A LANGUAGE IS NOT THE SAME AS KNOWING A CULTURE. You know a lot about Chinese culture. Learning to speak Mandarin will likely not teach you any more about Chinese culture. A language is just a tool for communication.

What about literature? Frankly, I bet you will never learn to read Chinese well enough that you will get significantly more understanding from reading the original Chinese than you will from reading a good translation into English. [There is, however, the issue that there are not a lot of good English translations for most Chinese works....]

YOU ARE JUST AS CHINESE (OR NOT CHINESE) IRRESPECTIVE OF HOW WELL YOU SPEAK CHINESE. Even if some day I become fluent in Chinese, that will not make me any more Chinese. Just like if I learn to speak Spanish well, I will in no way become Latino.

</rant>

Sorry, it just came over me.....

If you have interest in learning Chinese, I strongly encourage you to do so. There are a lot of good reasons for doing so. But just make sure that you are doing it for the right reason, or I predict you won't have the motivation to continue.

[CDN Chinese Gal]

Thank you for all of your responses.

I appreciate reading all of your personal experiences and insight on my situation.

However, I would like to comment on certain posts though:

Regarding language schools in Beijing, there are plenty of one year university courses that are reasonably priced (~$3000 USD for two terms, some higher some lower).

Where?? I have been searching on several sites, and many of them want $20,000 for two terms.

If anyone could give some names of schools that have a good reputation - please share.

There is no reason that a Chinese growing up in Canada should speak anything other than English.

THERE IS NOTHING GENETIC ABOUT SPEAKING CHINESE. Just because you are ethnically Chinese does not give you any advantage in learning Chinese over, say, me learning Chinese. You might have a practical advantage if growing up you heard a lot of Chinese spoken, but I would have the exact same advantage if I too grew up hearing people speak Chinese.

I feel a better reading this...

I'll try not to let the comments of others affect me so much.

Thanks again everyone!

[jkhsu]

I just want to say that I completely agree with jbradfor's points above. Now, on to the learning part. I suspect that your expectations of how long it's going to take might be off as well and you will most likely become frustrated.

So here are some thoughts from me: I think you need a 3 part plan for learning Chinese: the one year plan, the five year plan and the lifetime plan.

1. One year plan - Assuming you are starting from scratch, you should at least try to take some classes. You don't need to move to China to do this. I don't know about Canada but in the US, there are plenty of community colleges that teach beginner level Chinese. You can also try middlebury's intensive program which I hear is very good. If you have the money and time, moving to China for a year is certainly an option. However, keep in mind that you won't be fluent after a year. So don't expect to come back and converse like a native speaker. I know you mentioned that you wanted "a basic understanding of Mandarin" but let me tell you, once you get there, you're going to feel like you're still very far from knowing anything useful. So if you want to get as fluent as possible, continue reading.

2. Five year plan - After you get past the beginner level (yes, for most people, after a year, you've only just gotten past the beginner level), you're basically going to keep learning new vocab and improving your reading / speaking / writing (composition) skills. Assuming you're not doing this full time, it can take up to five years or more to get to the point of comfortably reading books and newspapers (btw, I am not there yet myself but I'm hoping my estimates are close). If you are doing this full time, maybe 2-3 years (this is after coming in at the intermediate level). I'm sure there are some in this forum who have done it faster but in general, I like to give more conservative estimates (and I am sure there are some who think these estimates are not conservative either). For speaking and writing (composition), you will need to get a tutor or someone who can help you practice these skills on a daily basis. Also, within this time is were you need to get realistic about your Chinese learning goals. If you are in an environment where you have no one to speak to, your Chinese speaking skills will not improve and if you don't continue speaking Chinese on a daily basis, your Chinese speaking skills will deteriorate.

3. Lifetime plan - This is where you need to create an environment to maintain and improve upon what you've learned. Learning Chinese is not like taking a pill and you're cured. Watching Chinese TV shows, reading newspapers / books, speaking to people, and writing (email, messenger, blogs, weibo, etc.) are activities that you will need to work into your daily schedule. Assuming that your current environment in Canada is "English only", you're going to have to figure out if it's worthwhile to invest so much time into learning Chinese and not keep up what you've learned. I'm not trying to discourage you but just make sure that you set your expectations straight and understand that you'll need to make changes in your life.

[johnk]

This is odd. Just today at work, I joined a Chinese colleague for lunch. She helps we with my Chinese sometimes.

She has two childern about 6 or 7 years old. Ages ago, I suggested that she should teach them Chinese. For example an Indian co-worker and his wife only talk their native language at home. The Idea being that the children will be fluent in their (parents') native language and they can learn English easily in school or in the general enviornment.

My Chinese friend was not too keen on this idea. But today she was telling me about how she was now speaking in Mandarin to the kids and making arrangements for them to attend Chinese school. I guess her perception of how important Mandarin is has changed.

[jbradfor]

Just be clear (which I don't think I've been doing very well at recently.....)

I think what your co-worker is doing is great. I encourage all parents to teach their kids their native language, whatever that is. In the past (at least here) this was discouraged: the fear way that kids would not learn the local language as well, yada yada yada. All research over the last several decades has shown that is not the case, and in fact some research has shown that learning more than one language as a kid actually helps language and general development. [Personally, I wonder if most/all of that effect is that more educated parents are more likely to teach their native language, and what is being measured is the statistically better genes from the parents.]

That said, the expectation for how much of the parents' native language the kids will learn should be kept appropriate. Listening to ones parents talk in Chinese, and going to Chinese school 2 hours a week, is not the same as growing up in China and attending Chinese schools. People seem to forget that. I think the problem is also one of motivation: to a kid growing up in an English-speaking environment, the need to learn Chinese is just not there.

[panpan86]

Just another show of support from an ethnic kid who can't speak his parent's language My father is Greek and my grandparents can't really speak English that well, but my dad never really pushed me to learn the language, and I have always resented this. Any Greek that I can speak has come from my own efforts at language learning. It is definitely a shame to not have learnt the language the 'easy way' as a child, but there's no reason you can't do it now with some time and effort. Good luck!

[carlo]

I’ve heard statements like this so many times before becoming a parent myself that now I’m trying to pass everything on to our son (now three) — native languages, dialects/languages of relatives, and major second languages too. As an amateur linguist, I actually enjoy it, though my wife thinks he’ll say his first grammatical sentence by the time he’s twenty.

Children mysteriously decide that they *need* something and then soak it up perfectly. But as soon as they are placed in a monolingual school and environment, they will conclude that the second language is useless, and discard it just as quickly. I am sure that this is what will happen to us in a few years time. The only method that *might* work would involve extended vacations in foreign countries during school breaks, which I expect would be beyond the financial reach of most young parents anyway.

So please guys do spare a thought for your old man, it’s really not as easy as it looks.