Pronounciation of Pinyin yu

[yeut]

For example,

玉

yù

MDBG does not pronounce the y in yu:

http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php?page=worddict&wdrst=0&wdqb=yu

Whereas another dictionary (mandarin tools) does pronounce the y:

http://www.mandarintools.com/sounds/yu4.aif

Which is correct?

[yonglin]

I seem to recall from my first Chinese textbook that the “y" in yu, and the "w" in "wu" (etc.) are not really pronounced but there to eliminate ambiguity in compound words. That said, some native speakers clearly pronounce them and some do not. My impression is that it's optional.

[jkhsu]

I agree that it's optional. I initially thought that the "y" was not pronounced but then I listened to a few newscasts and heard the "y". Check out this link:

http://english.cntv.cn/program/learnchinese/20100629/103210.shtml

Listen from 1:09 - 1:11 for (回良玉) and you can hear the "y" sound in 玉.

[yeut]

So if it's optional, then for Beijing Mandarin Standard dialect is the y pronounced or not?

[renzhe]

I don't think that it's specified. It's a glide which happens naturally with some speakers when they start a word with a vowel. You will hear it with some speakers, and not with others, or they might use it in different circumstances.

It does not have to be pronounced, though, and pinyin writes it because it makes the orthography clearer.

[Olle Linge]

This is called G-spreading (G as in glide, as Renzhe says) and means that the glide spreads to the onset (the first slot),which is empty in this case. As far as I know, ti's not settled wether or not this should happen for all syllables in Chinese or. Duanmu (2007) says that "on possibility is that every syllable has an onset, so that a high vowel [such as the one you ask about] is always preceeded by G [glide]. For example [in] is in fact [∅in], which has an empty onset ∅, and it becomes [jin] under G-spreading." He also says that another possibility is that this isn't the case and that [jin] isn't required at all.

[roddy]

There is no such thing as "Beijing Mandarin Standard".

[yialanliu]

Agree with Roddy. Beijing does have its own dialect, and mandarin while close to Beijing dialect is not the same. Mandarin is actually closest to the Northeast 3 provinces but even they are slightly different.

you will fail 普通话一甲(highest level) if you use Beijing dialect and probably even 普通话二甲 (4th highest level) although a slight tweak and pasing 二甲 should not be difficult for a native speaker from Beijing..

With that said, I think the best way to look at all yu with not pronouncing the y. For others such I would pronounce the consanent, including wu. Or else, yu and wu would be the same, which should not be the case.

[jbradfor]

For others such I would pronounce the consanent, including wu. Or else, yu and wu would be the same, which should not be the case.

This is not correct. The u in yu is the "umlaut u", while the u in wu is the "non-umlaut u". The u after j, q, x, and y are all the umlaut u, the same sound as nv and lv (I don't know how to type the u-umlaut here....); it's just that for "ease", the umlaut is dropped after j, q, x, and y, as, unlike n and l, there is no non-umlaut u sound following these initials.

[yialanliu]

This is not correct. The u in yu is the "umlaut u", while the u in wu is the "non-umlaut u". The u after j, q, x, and y are all the umlaut u, the same sound as nv and lv (I don't know how to type the u-umlaut here....); it's just that for "ease", the umlaut is dropped after j, q, x, and y, as, unlike n and l, there is no non-umlaut u sound following these initials.

You are correct. The last part I wrote is wrong.

However, the history of pinyin indeed added the y to the umlaut u rather than allow it to be free standing on its own for characters even though it is not part of the sound. This is only for this specific case whereas other consenants make up a part of the character sound when used with u or v..

[renzhe]

Beijing does have its own dialect, and mandarin while close to Beijing dialect is not the same. Mandarin is actually closest to the Northeast 3 provinces but even they are slightly different.

I don't want to open this can of worms again, but this might get confusing otherwise.

Linguistically speaking, "Mandarin" refers to a language family, like Cantonese/Yue, Wu, or Min. There are many sub-dialects of Mandarin, including Beijing Mandarin and Tianjin Mandarin, etc., even Sichuanese. There are also many sub-dialects of Wu, like Shanghainese, Wuxinese, Hangzhou-nese (?) etc.

Outside of China, "Mandarin" typically refers to "Standard Mandarin", or Guoyu or Putonghua. When you learn Mandarin, this is what you learn, and that's generally a good thing. But standard Mandarin is just one dialect of Mandarin and, you're right, it is somewhat different from Beijing Mandarin today.

I think that a part of the confusion comes from how Mandarin is inconsistently translated to and from English. Sometimes it means Guoyu, sometimes it means Guanhua, and sometimes it means Beifanghua. Actually, IMHO, it most closely corresponds to the latter, in linguistic terms.

[Mak]

In standard Chinese "y" should always be pronounced.