Advice regarding pursuing education in Chinese studies.

[Findus]

大家好!

This spring/early summer I'll finish my Bachelor's Degree in Music (Performance). I've now studied music continuously since I've been about 17 years old, and I sort of now find myself in a position where everyone around tells me it's hard to find jobs with a BA in music. Obviously, I always knew it would not be easy but here I am. I have more and more having second thoughts about having music as a job, and instead putting it on the side as a hobby. I started taking lessons in Chinese 1,5 year ago (in groups, now I have a private tutor) and even though my progress hasn't been great, I've learnt little by little and really, really enjoy it. I feel a special sort of joy when being able to convey what I mean in Chinese, even though my sentences are obviously not complex at all. It's sort of a gut feeling I have; I feel like I would miss out if I didn't learn Chinese at this point in my life. I have no girlfriend, or anything that keeps me settled down, so even though I am in my mid-20s, I feel I have nothing to lose when going for this. I realize it will be hard work. I know what I am going into. Please note, this is not impulsive. I've had these thoughts in my head for about 1,5 years now, and now I have to make a decision.

But the thing is, I have two options, basically:

1) Getting into a BA in Music and continue on in that path,

and

2) Starting a Chinese studies BA (with a minor in Economics)

I could see myself working in import/export, hopefully combining Mandarin into my whole package. I know that this is a sector that probably has use for people who has the knowledge to translate Mandarin to my first language, which is Norwegian.

I've been looking around for any conclusive finds on whether a Chinese studies BA is a good idea or not. The universities in Norway doesn't seem to have too many programs with China, and there is only one BA in the country focusing on this. Mind you, the focus is not only Mandarin, there'll also be an option to "minor" in Economics, for instance, which can be expanded upon in several ways after the BA is ended.

What do you guys think is a good course of action here? I know what you all (probably ;)) are thinking: just go to China and study the language there. I agree, that would be the best course of action probably, but I have no resources/money to just do that. This Chinese studies bachelor seems like the best route to my goal, which is to learn Mandarin and get a job where I can combine the fields of economics and Chinese language.

Am I delusional, is this making sense to anyone but myself?

Thank you for your input. I sincerly appreciate it. :-)

[jkhsu]

Am I delusional, is this making sense to anyone but myself?

No, you are not delusional at all. In fact, your post is one of the more sensible ones on this topic.

What do you guys think is a good course of action here? I know what you all (probably ;)) are thinking: just go to China and study the language there. I agree, that would be the best course of action probably, but I have no resources/money to just do that.

Going to China is actually not the best course of action in many circumstances. There have been so many posts lately of people planning to drop everything and move to China in hopes of a better life that seeing your post is a breath of fresh air. My suggestion is to first finish your BA in music performance because you're so close already (I am assuming that was your plan). Afterwards, you have several options:

1. BA in Chinese with minor in Econ - You've listed this as an option and I don't think it's a bad option as long as you have the time and money to afford. Have you tried applying Internationally? I know in the US, there are quite a number Universities that offer a BA in Chinese.

2. BA in Econ and minor in Chinese - Have you thought of this option? If you are going to go back to school, I would suggest you go this route. If you can get into a reputable University for the econ degree, you'll probably find better job prospects as well.

3. Find a job in the field you are interested now - What about just finding a job in the field you are interested now? You might start off in the lower ranks but you can move up as you gain more work experience. Many people work in jobs that are completely different from their major. I've met English majors doing computer programming and Japanese majors doing project management (completely unrelated to Japan or Japanese). As you're working, you can learn Chinese on the side.

[jbradfor]

MA in Econ and minor in Chinese. [if possible.]

Do you really want to go through undergrad again? Given a choice between 4 years to get a second BA, and 2 years to get a master's, it seems a no-brainer to me.

Later thought: don't do a BA in Chinese. Take a look at UCB's requirements, for example, and you'll see that the "language" requirements are minimal: three years college level courses. All the rest of the time you're taking literature and culture and electives and so on. I'm not saying that it's a bad major in general, I'm just saying that if your goal is to communicate in Chinese (and read every-day texts), this is not what you want.

[icebear]

MA in Econ and minor in Chinese. [if possible.]

Unless his Music BA has included significant mathematics courses and at least some econ he's unlikely to be accepted into a decent MA econ program, much less receive funding (he mentioned money was a constraint). This could be overcome by a year of non-degree math courses, but you'll need to weigh how worthwhile that is for you by getting a better idea of where an econ MA can take you (many places - but do you want to go there?).

[Findus]

Thank you all for answering, I really appreciate it! Oh, and a BA in Norway is 3 years, not 4 years. So it's not all that bad.

It's true what you are saying, icebear; I've done no economic/math courses to be accepted into a MA econ program. However, I am currently researching whether I need more courses than the ones I would eventually get in the Chinese studies BA to apply for a MA in Economics. I haven't researched this too much, as is apparent, but I reckon it'll be clearer once I know what I am dealing with in terms of courses, etc. I'm not guaranteed a spot in the BA (Chinese studies) at all; getting in is very hard in terms of grades. But I'm pretty sure it's what I really want, so here's to hoping.

I'm thinking it's more of a better gateway to integrate it and focus on learning Chinese much more than I have done up till this point. I've been learning on the side, and I haven't really been doing so too effectively, but I guess that could change. I reckon that learning Chinese will give me a good "edge" along with some specialization in economics, especially since English isn't my first language (meaning that there aren't too many in Norway who speaks Mandarin). Has anyone had any experience with taking a course in Chinese/East Asian studies, and how did you guys do after that?

[jbradfor]

Unless his Music BA has included significant mathematics courses and at least some econ he's unlikely to be accepted into a decent MA econ program, much less receive funding (he mentioned money was a constraint).

That depends. I was accepted into both the Stanford and Carnegie-Mellon Electrical Engineer masters programs never having taken an Engineering course in my life. Please don't tell me they are not decent programs. [Now I did have a physics background, and physics is closer to engineering than music is to econ, but still...]

Has anyone had any experience with taking a course in Chinese/East Asian studies, and how did you guys do after that?

I did. History, literature, Chinese poetry, classical Chinese, modern Chinese. They were interesting. Didn't change my life.

[icebear]

That depends. I was accepted into both the Stanford and Carnegie-Mellon Electrical Engineer masters programs never having taken an Engineering course in my life. Please don't tell me they are not decent programs. [Now I did have a physics background, and physics is closer to engineering than music is to econ, but still...]

It doesn't depend on anything [if he lacks the math]. Without at least a full calculus sequence, linear algebra and a few theory-style courses in statistics an application for a decent economics graduate program would go straight in the garbage; just like it would (probably more so) for your EE Masters programs. I'm in an econ MA right now; over half of the students have non-economics backgrounds - none have mathematical deficiencies. Your comparison isn't a fair one, and you admit so yourself.

I don't mean to be combative, but to give him objective information about his options. An Econ MA is a good idea, I think, but only if he has the background to succeed in it. Without those tools he's likely to fail, assuming he doesn't just waste his application fees. This completely ignores the issue of where he would get the necessary/qualified letters of recommendation for application.

[animal world]

This is the second thread about a radical career change in less than two weeks. The underlying motto seems to be that famous line from Monty Python:

And now for something totally different!

So, the OP perceives that it won't be easy to make a living with music and wants to make a 180 degree change to an area that is practical and hopefully offers many job opportunities. The big question I have is: will you like it? Do you see yourself sitting in an office doing economic analysis for forty years of your life or so?

If not, try to find a middle way and pursue something that is also creative: computer science, software development. And if you feel you have musical talent, don't give totally up on it. Who knows, it may lead you to the pot of gold at the end of a long and winding road.

[yialanliu]

In my opinion, certain programs are much better than others for East Asian Studies Minors/Majors. For instance, at my university, the ones enrolled in International Business with an East Asian Studies Minor are required to goto China/Hong Kong for a semester and truly learn about the culture while there. At the same time, we are required to do a coop in the same area (Hong Kong, Singapore, China, Japan) However, all other minors are not given the opportunity and I think this is probably the best part of the minor.

Because of this, I would strongly recommend looking at what the course schedule is and see if there's any courses or tracks that seem special such as being able to do a homestay or something along those lines. Or else, your minor/major looks great on paper but the experience you get will leave you wanting more.

I work in import export right now and yea there are many great job opportunities. However, I will warn you, the pay is much lower than in Europe or America (full salary is 3k RMB at Ningbo with bonuses so I am expecting to make 6k a month total which isn't bad, but still much lower than Europe or America)

My concern though is if you want to do import/export a degree in economics just isn't the best degree. Of course all degrees work for everything but lets be honest, it's still advantageous to have studied what your doing. Majoring in logistics, supply chain, or even regular business would give better opportunities. My firm only hires from China, International Business majors, English majors, Business majors, and a few Econ, in that descending order of preference. For foreign hirees(you), it's a mixed bag but everyone here is a business major or had experience in the industry.

Lastly, before making a jump to living and working in China, I'd recommend you to visit China and especially the areas outside of the expat areas to see if it's something you can do for a long period of time.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

[gato]

Have you considered a career in teaching music? That probably wouldn't require too much more schooling.

The OP is already in his mid-20s. If he switches to a completely different field, he's likely to be nearly 30 years old, without any job experience, when he graduates. That could be a hindrance to getting a job.

[thechamp]

Hey, I was in a similar situation to you where I wanted to switch to Chinese after my previous degree in English literature then my lawschool GDL. The problem is, and what friends who had studied Chinese told me: you just won't learn an employable level of Chinese on a 1 year MA (MAs are one year in the UK). Also, as people have already mentioned, the courses are fine but aren't usually too focused on the actual Chinese language. Look at SOAS, Cambridge, Oxford Edinburgh.....Even the Chinese lit course usually have a couple of English taught modules.....and 'Chinese Studies' at MA with no previous Chinese is kind of a joke. My advice is if you want to actually learn Chinese for a skill, go to China, hire a tutor for 2 years, and study Chinese and speak with your tutor every day. It's probably cheaper than a university and also you can skip things you find easy and focus on your difficulties. Then take the HSK. Any job where they actually want you to speak in Chinese, a lot, will be far more interested in your Chinese and your HSK score than in whether you have a BA/MA in the subject

As a side note I also have a friend who did a music/chinese BA. Afterwards he stayed in China studying for a year and now he's been in Beijing around 4/5 years, doing various jobs but never struggling for employment. He said he thought being musically minded helped with tones and the rhythm of chinese speech. So good luck!

[OneEye]

Have you considered a career in teaching music? That probably wouldn't require too much more schooling.

And it's just as difficult to find a job doing this as it is for anything else. What's more, the job sucks unless you absolutely love teaching music, and it's thankless (which yes, you can say for many jobs), and in the US at least, it's one of the first jobs to get cut when financial problems arise in the school district. My wife and I found this out last year when her position was cut without much warning. Fortunately we had already made plans to come to Taiwan for me to study.

The OP is already in his mid-20s. If he switches to a completely different field, he's likely to be nearly 30 years old, without any job experience, when he graduates. That could be a hindrance to getting a job.

Well that's fairly bleak. I'll be 28 when I finish my language training in Taiwan, 30 when I finish my MA, and probably in my late thirties when I finish my PhD. This is pretty common for PhDs in humanities, where the average age to finish is 35 I believe. Now I may be able to skip the MA and go directly to the PhD, which is certainly possible but not guaranteed, but I'll still be in my mid-30's.

"Getting a job" is not the end all and be all of life. I know we've been over this before and have differing thoughts on the matter, but every time I see you discouraging someone from pursuing what they want to do in favor of doing something "practical, so you can get a job", my whole world turns gray and I see prison bars coming down around me. I had a perfectly successful and lucrative career in retail management before I decided to drop it and pursue academia, but I hated every moment of it. It affected every other aspect of my life, including my marriage, and I had to get out. There are plenty of people who make career changes in their late 20's, and MUCH later, who do so successfully and are much happier for it. There are a lot of people at my school here doing exactly that. There were a lot of people at my music college doing exactly that, actually. Some want out, others want in.

Besides, there is always a job, if you can get creative about it. I'm doing just fine financially here in Taiwan by tutoring English and proofreading academic papers and résumés, and it leaves my most of my day free to study and have a social life. I got a scholarship that paid for me to study the first three months and covered a big chunk of my living expenses, and I will probably come out ahead financially by the time I leave Taiwan, Master's degree in hand and everything. It just takes smart planning and hard work. And I don't hate my life every morning when I wake up, which is worth a lot more to me than money. I actually look forward to each day because I love studying, I love my "jobs", and I'm having a great time here.

[gato]

"Getting a job" is not the end all and be all of life. I know we've been over this before and have differing thoughts on the matter, but every time I see you discouraging someone from pursuing what they want to do in favor of doing something "practical, so you can get a job", my whole world turns gray and I see prison bars coming down around me.

Everyone's situation is different. You have to look more closely at what OP asked:

I could see myself working in import/export, hopefully combining Mandarin into my whole package

The OP sees studying Chinese as a way of working in import / export. It's as practical of a goal as there is. For most such "practical" jobs, experience is important and schooling has a diminishing return after a certain point.

And it's just as difficult to find a job doing this as it is for anything else. What's more, the job sucks unless you absolutely love teaching music, and it's thankless (which yes, you can say for many jobs), and in the US at least, it's one of the first jobs to get cut when financial problems arise in the school district.

1. There is a chance that Norway is not like Texas, which is laying off teachers like there is no tomorrow.

2. Import / export, which is what the OP is thinking of getting into, might suck just as much as music teaching. Who knows? It's worth a try since he's already spent 8 years studying music full-time since he was 17. He probably has some aptitude for it.

[OneEye]

My point is that you're encouraging him to do something he apparently is losing interest in doing professionally, for the sake of having a job. I don't see the sense in that. Let's say I have a choice between a job that I hate, but am good at, and a job that I would like to do, but it will take a few more years of education to get into (which, as you may remember, was quite literally my situation not long ago). Nothing you could say would make me just settle for 40 years in a job I hate because in a few years it "might" be difficult to find a job in my new field. And it's much easier to make the switch now when I'm 27, have no debt, and no kids, than when I'm 40 with a mortgage, kids, and regrets that that I didn't make the change sooner.

Of course, the OP should be smart about it and not put all of his eggs in one basket. I'm going full steam ahead after a job in academia, and things are looking pretty good so far. I've made some great, influential contacts at universities here, in the US, and in Europe, both in my immediate field of choice and in others. But I'm not going after it blindly. I've made some other good contacts, both here and back in the US, several of which could lead to lucrative careers in other fields that would also allow me to use my Chinese in a professional capacity, either in government or as a translator. So I guess my point is take out all the stops to go after what you want even if it's risky, but have smart backup plans too.

[gato]

My point is that you're encouraging him to do something he apparently is losing interest in doing professionally. Let's say I have a choice between a job that I hate, but am good at, and a job that I would like to do

The OP thinks it might be too hard to find a job in music but still wants to keep it as a hobby. He didn't say that he hates music, or even that he's losing interest in it. It's at least worth considering teaching. Can it be that much worse than import / export?

I sort of now find myself in a position where everyone around tells me it's hard to find jobs with a BA in music. Obviously, I always knew it would not be easy but here I am. I have more and more having second thoughts about having music as a job, and instead putting it on the side as a hobby.

[OneEye]

No, you're right. I'm bringing some of my own stuff into this (that's what I was thinking of when I said "a job that I hate"). However, the OP has said he is losing interest in music as a profession (I read "more and more having second thoughts about having music as a job, and putting it on the side as a hobby" as "losing interest in music as a profession"), and you're encouraging him to stick with it just because it's something he's studied for a few years. That really doesn't mean anything, no offense to the OP. You can study music for 20 years and still be awful. And even if not, if it isn't something you want to do professionally, then there's no reason to. It's not exactly the most lucrative or easiest profession in the world, and if you're not completely passionate about it, it can get really miserable.