any point in studing mandarin before coming to China?

[zhongguo2020]

My new year resolution this year was to make a couple of changes to my life and the main one will be to learn Chinese. I have never been to China and dont know reallly know anything about the language - but doing something completely new I dont know is what I am looking for

Found this forum and it has been very helpful. So wanted to ask for some advice: I am working to save money to come to China at the moment and wondering if it makes sense to start studying Mandarin at the moment or would it be better to fully focus on work, try to make as much money as quickly as possible and then be able to come to China a bit earlier/stay longer/have a better life there/spend more on a good school etc.?

From what I read progress when not using the language every day and only studying part time (I could do a maximum of six hours per week I think with my current job) is not so useful and the job I am considering to apply for at the moment wouldnt allow me to study at all, but pays quite a bit better.

So, better work hard now and make money quickly or spend some more time preparing?

I am a bit scared about flying to China without knowing any Chinese I have to admit though....

[freshysauce]

Start now. If it takes x amount of time to reach your goal in chinese, then you'll be x-1 day away if you start today.

Studying six hours per week wouldn't be that helpful for someone who already has a decent level of chinese and is trying to get fluent. But for a beginner, when progress is more measurable, it is definitely worth it. Why not? It's 6 more hours a week than you're studying now!

I went to China last August and spent the summer preparing. I did the Pimsleur series and learned a few hundred characters using http://remembr.it/. Knowing a few survival phrases, basic sentence patterns etc. is quite handy those first few days.

More important than the concrete things I learned, however, was the fact that I developed an understanding and familiarity, however small, with Chinese. Do not underestimate this. John at Sinosplice once wrote that the first stage to learning Chinese is to accept that it is actually a language. If you start learning tones, pinyin, some basic characters while in the comfort of your own home, you'll gain some confidence and think "I can acutally learn this!".

[Lu]

Yes, start now. For one thing, it'll be very helpful once you come to China. But mainly, learning a language takes a lot of time. The earlier you start, the earlier you'll speak some Chinese. Study a little every day and in a year you'll know some Chinese. Why put it off?

Good luck!

[amandagmu]

Start now for the reason mentioned above re: familiarity with the language. Although I definitely could not speak or understand much of what was spoken to me when I first arrived, the fact that I'd actually learned how to read/write some characters and knew some basic structures went a long way towards not freaking out in class. Besides, the materials you can get outside of China will usually include some translated words and explanations in your native language, whereas materials you get once there will likely be mostly or all in Chinese, including grammar explanations in textbooks -- or even worse, in poorly-translated English.

Also, knowing how to learn the language beforehand will help with things that are not like other languages, such as familiarity with stroke order for using the Pleco dictionary or counting the strokes to look up words in a paper copy. Also, understanding the differences between tones. Everyone's favorite part about what makes Chinese so magical! *sarcasm*

[icebear]

I think everyone is glossing over the OPs dilemma - earning a lot of money now with no studying, versus earning less money now and having a longer or higher quality period of study in China later.

I'm personally skeptical that any job you get would prevent you from learning at least passively (podcasts or other audio lessons). 30 minutes a day doesn't seem that insurmountable. I'd say go for this with your plum job, don't stress if you miss some days but just try to expose yourself somewhat to lower level content/concepts. As others have mentioned, it will help a lot when you finally get there.

That said, if the choice really is as stark as you've described it (amazing pay versus part time study) I'd say go for the amazing pay. If you figure it costs around $3000 per year for your average university run Chinese program in China, and another $6,000 for cost of living during the 9 months, let's just round up and say $10,000 for an academic year (that could go up or more likely down, depending on your preferences and the particular city). If you truly are looking at a great salary for hard work I'd say bust your ass and try to earn enough for a year, or two, as quickly as possible.

So long as you can achieve a decent savings quickly its worth going all out on the earnings while the opportunity is there; if its a long term savings plan (years) I'd say start studying on your own also.

[zhongguo2020]

thanks everyone. Yes @icebear, that is my dilema. I agree with everyone, the earlier you start of course the better (I guess that is the same for anything you learn), but how much money I manage to earn now will have a bi effect on how long I can stay in China and study full time.

It will take x amount of hours to be fluent - but are those hours better spent in China (with the money made now) or preparing beforehand.

It sounds like making money now and then staying longer in China makes more sense. It would be pretty intense (pretty much two jobs at the same time), so there wouldnt be much time to study. I would be wiling to do it if it gets me where I want to get to.

Maybe it would be worth taking two weeks off to study before flying to China and study full time in Spain? Do taxi drivers in China speak English, so at least I can go to wherever I will study/live?

[大肚男]

I guess I will be a dissenting voice

If studying Chinese will interfere with your work, concentrate on work and leave learning Chinese until you go to China.

I think you would learn more in a month living and studying full-time in China than you would studying a year for 6 hours a week alone.

This of course depends on how are you going to China. First time I went to China it was through a U.S. university for a semester abroad, literally the only Chinese I know was Ni Hao. However, the school took care of accommodations and supplied us with cards to show to cab drivers with the address of our hotel.

[animal world]

I share Icebear's skepticism that your current job supposedly is such that any spare minute you spend on it automatically translates into more money coming in.

My impression is that you are not really interested in learning the Chinese language and you look for wonderful excuses that justify your not learning it now. If you were really interested in it, you would have started learning it (and also Chinese culture) no matter what and devote as much time to it that you could.

Do you know why you are even interested in moving to China? Is it about the same idea as people in the 1840s flocking to California to look for gold?

Do you know any foreign languages? How much did you enjoy learning them and what effort do you make to keep up with them? Keep in mind that Chinese is significantly more difficult than learning another language derived from Latin.

Just some questions you might consider before making your decision about learning Chinese and moving to China.

[adrianlondon]

Before I went to Beijing to study Mandarin for one semester (back in 2006/7) I studied 1.5 hours a week with a friend/tutor for a year. It really helped. I ended up being placed in the second level of classes; the equivalent of having already studied a semester full time.

It was a big struggle for the first couple of weeks (because in reality I wasn't at that level, but I didn't want to go to the beginners class) but it came good in the end.

I was actually placed into the third level, equivalent of having done a year's previous study. This is because they asked me during the enrollment test how long I'd been studying for and I said, in Chinese of course as the test is done in Chinese, "one year". I wasn't quick enough to say "but only one hour a week" before they ushered me out of the room. But after half a day in level 102 I moved back down to 101.

I have a handy tip though for those going to study : Learn some schooling vocabulary. I didn't know the words for things such as "homework", "page number", "listening class", "term/semester", "exam" etc. That would have really helped.

[歐博思]

When I went to Qinghua last year, I was strapped for money. I know for a fact this affected me in more aspects than just eating out hardly at all. It can make your life stressful, and when you are stressed out it makes it harder to absorb the language like a sponge.

So, I believe the higher paying job is worth it. Just start aquanting yourself with the basics of language now (structure, pinyin and its sounds, some of the characters, etc) -- delve into deeper waters once you reach China with truckloads of cash.

[imron]

I have my doubts that there is a single job that could prevent you from being able to do any study. You'd basically have to be only doing sleeping, eating and working. There are plenty of places you can squeeze time out of a day - during a commute, watching less TV/internet etc, getting up 1/2 an hour earlier etc.

As a beginner, 1/2 an hour a day over several months would give you a good grasp of basic concepts.

[renzhe]

It will take x amount of hours to be fluent - but are those hours better spent in China (with the money made now) or preparing beforehand.

It will take x amount of YEARS to be fluent, at least the way I use the word. Not hours.

If you are interested in the type of fluency that will enable you to participate in all the activities you can participate in in your mother tongue, it will be a long-term committment. This might influence your decision.

Like most people, I think that an immersive environment can be a huge boost, but if your time in China will be limited (i.e. not 5 years), it is a good idea to not go totally unprepared. You can do a lot of boring work now, instead of wasting precious time when you're in China. This especially relates to basic understanding of tones and memorising the most important 1000-2000 characters and common vocabulary. If you already know this stuff when you arrive, you will learn much much faster in China, and make better use of your time there.

Like imron, I don't think that time is an issue. 30 minutes per day with a good SRS flashcard program can teach you the 1000 most common characters in one year. You can do that while commuting, on your android phone or ipad. With a bit of effort, you can reach 2000 without problems. The main question is whether the work related stress will leave you fresh enough to engage in such an activity. You are not lacking time, but you might be lacking energy after a gruelling day's work.

[jbradfor]

I have my doubts that there is a single job that could prevent you from being able to do any study. You'd basically have to be only doing sleeping, eating and working.

You're assuming the OP has no other obligations, e.g. family, judge-ordered community service....

Studying six hours per week wouldn't be that helpful for someone who already has a decent level of chinese and is trying to get fluent. But for a beginner, when progress is more measurable, it is definitely worth it.

I'm not sure I follow this logic. If you mean diminishing returns with more study (i.e. the amount of additional fluency X hours of study gives you), then true. But if you mean the number of hours years it takes to reach a certain level, then it seems to me that those hours are the same whether at the beginning or the end. Also, I think it's easier for someone with a decent level of Chinese to do self-study.

That said, by all means start to study now. For all you know you'll realize you hate learning Chinese, better to know that now than when you're in China. Also, I feel that the additional learning one gets "for free" when one is immersed in a Chinese-speaking environment peaks at around 2-4 years of study. [1]

[1] I totally made that number up. But I'm pretty sure it's not at zero.

[imron]

You're assuming the OP has no other obligations, e.g. family, judge-ordered community service....

Given that the OP had said they want to basically up and move their life to china for a period of time long enough to learn Chinese and didn't raise any concerns about how this would affect those other commitments, I that that's a fair assumption to make.

Even if it's not, I would still find it difficult to believe that someone seriously interested in learning chinese (ie some willing to relocate their life to china for a significant period of time) would be unable to find half an hour in the day somewhere for at least most days.

[freshysauce]

jbradfor: Yes I was talking about diminishing marginal returns. Once you reach a certain level, then part of your study is for maintenance and part of your study will help you improve. As you get better, you will need to study more to actually see improvement. A near-fluent learner would likely not get better on 1 hour of study a day; he would just be maintaining his existing language skills. But that hour would be quite useful to someone like the OP.

Renzhe and jbradfor brought up a few good points about the usefulness of immersion; i echo them. During my first few months in China I realized that immersion isn't all that helpful to a rank beginner. You can learn pinyin, a few hundred words, and a few hundred characters anywhere. It is helpful of course, but your language skills have to reach a certain tipping point before you can get the full benefits of immersion.

Looking back, I wish I had done more before I got to China so I could have reached that tipping point sooner. Then more of my time in China could have been spent taking full advantage of my language surroundings. Thus I would suggest to the OP that he (or she!) start learning right away. If it's truly a priority then you'll make time. The better your foundation is, then the faster you'll improve in China, and your time there will be more efficient.

[zhongguo2020]

thanks so much for all the replies, great community here. Hope to meet some of you in China one day.

I would be effectively working two jobs, one night and one day, so really studying at the same time would not be an option. There seem to be some different opinions on the topic, which means there is probably no truly right or wrong there, which is good. I am tending more to working and coming to China sooner and for longer. It is just for a few months anyways, not a life changing decision. I will go and learn it, one way or the other

My concern is still a bit about arriving in China and not being able to speak to anyone. Can a school arrange this for you? My friend told me it is safe in China at least.

[icebear]

Can a school arrange this for you? My friend told me it is safe in China at least.

Arrival and initial setup shouldn't pose any major problems.

Also, I think if you were clearer with the tradeoffs you face people could offer better advice, e.g.

Options:

1. Work 40 hours per week the next 8 months, then move to China for 1 year
   
2. Work 80 hours per week the next 4 months, the move to China for 2 years
   

I have no idea if this approximates your situation, but just wanted to highlight if the difference between the two options was as stark as above, you might receive a clearer consensus.

[zhongguo2020]

thanks. Basically it is either working two jobs (about 70 hours per week) or just stay with my current job.

I hope that with working two jobs I could have enough money to come to China by summer.

It is actually not an existential question, it will work either way, was just wondering what would be better

[abcdefg]

Do taxi drivers in China speak English, so at least I can go to wherever I will study/live?

Generally speaking, no.

Beijing taxi drivers had to learn a few words of English before the 2008 Olympics and I heard that some also did in Shanghai before the 2010 World Expo, but that's about it.

[icebear]

thanks. Basically it is either working two jobs (about 70 hours per week) or just stay with my current job.

I hope that with working two jobs I could have enough money to come to China by summer.

It is actually not an existential question, it will work either way, was just wondering what would be better

If you're just considering 3-4 months at this pace, and presumably it will double the time you can spend in China (1 to 2 years?), I think you're better off working like hell for 3 months and then studying like hell once in China. I'm still skeptical that you can't listen to podcasts on your commute, but assuming that's that case, I'd suggest working hard and saving. Being financial secure will allow you to focus fully on your studies once you arrive. Learning a bit about pinyin and tones would help a lot (and not take much time to figure out the concepts).