fix tones and accent

[roddy]

I can't see that he's advocating anything different to what anyone on here would likely recommend - input, practice, feedback. It ain't rocket science. It's just being presented in a different manner, with a few old myths thrown in for good measure (oh, that's how babies learn is it? I'll remember that next time I have seventeen billion blank neurons twiddling their collected synapses and no cognitive skills whatsoever) and a cavalier disregard for the source and quality of feedback (you can copy copy copy all you want, it's a lucky language learner indeed who can do that alone without picking up and cementing errors).

I don't quite see the point of asking for proof of his pronunciation - it's not going to change anything either way.

[imron]

Yeah, and post a recording of yourself to give the rest of us something to aspire to.

And wouldn't you know it, there's a thread just for that

[renzhe]

chineserelics was kind enough to send me a sample of his speech and it's really good, flows nicely, and sounds very Chinese. Colour me impressed, although there were occasional wrong tones in there still. He doesn't seem comfortable posting it publically, but it passes my test in any case.

I wonder how many years it took you to pick it all up from exposure -- you mention you've been fluent for 3 years, but not how long you spent in China altogether. I've long had the feeling that the sort of exposure one gets from immersion lets you learn in a way that's not always feasible for people outside of China. I've noticed great improvements from TV shows and occasional chats here in Europe, but it was nowhere near enough, IMHO. What helped my tones and pronunciation (once I was already conversational and mostly in the right ballpark) were the kind of exercises I described, and I don't think I'm alone there.

I guess that your argument is not "screw the tones" (which is wrong and pushes all sorts of wrong buttons), but that tones should be primarily learned from exposure and listening and repeating, and not through memorisation, and I can agree that this is a probably the most important part of it. But if you really have habits you need to fix, I'd say that the stuff I wrote in my first post are the way to go. Once habits are there, more exposure probably won't cut it.

[imron]

He doesn't seem comfortable posting it publically.

From his earlier posts, you'd never have thought he was the shy, embarrassed type.