Which spoken style of Chinese is this...

[tlr]

Living in Columbus, Ohio, USA, I hear a lot of Chinese from college students. Not being a Chinese speaker myself, I hear two distinctly different types which may be Cantonese and Mandarin, but I'm not sure.

One has, to my Western ear, more roundings of the mouth, where the other has more "sh" sounds, featuring sounds like those in the English word "sure," and so on.

I've noticed that the wealthier business people and elders tend to speak the latter. To me it is much more beautiful than the former, but that's just an opinion. It has a nice tone and moves through interesting mouthings, and has a sort of regal quality about it. The first type I described has a harsher, more dissident tonal quality and apparently less variation.

I apologize for my general ignorance and hope my casual summary of my observations doesn't offend anybody, but could you help me (generally) distinguish between these two types? Thanks for your help and education.

[Maisi]

You'r absolutely right, Cantonese sounds awful

[amory hill]

but in spite of efforts to the contrary, isn't it reasonable to assume that Cantonese is here to stay? it must be much more difficult to re-learn than say, from Shanghai dialect to mandarin. which is what I've been trying to do, at this belated stage.

[bluepoppy]

Here is a way to know for sure...(the first blue 'real audio player' link is Mandarin, skip one and then the next is Cantonese)

http://www.ctlwmp.cityu.edu.hk/dialects/prolist.htm

Personally I prefer the sound over Cantonese over Mandarin...I prefer its subtle, lilting quality.To me Mandarin sounds a little harsher, like a xylophone and Cantonese sounds more melodic+ gentle...dunno...just what I think anyway.

One day my friend and I watched 花樣年華 'In the Mood for Love' together and he said "I am so impressed you can speak this language...it is so beautiful," (he's French so he says things like that) and I said "no, no....just Mandarin"

I gave up learning Cantonese...one time everyone can agree it sounds ugly is if I open my mouth and speak it

[bhchao]

Longtime ago I had a Cantonese girlfriend who preferred Mandarin over her first language. She admitted that Cantonese sounds blunt. To her, two people speaking Cantonese to each other sounds like they're fighting.

Anyways that's her opinion. Treat it as a grain of salt

[Quest]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantonese_language

Dialects of Cantonese

There are at least four major dialect groups of Cantonese: Yuehai , which includes the dialect spoken in Guangzhou, Hong Kong and Macau as well as the dialects of Zhongshan, and Dongguan; Siyi (sei yap), exemplified by Taishan (台山 Toisaan, Hoisaan) dialect, which used to be ubiquitous in American Chinatowns before 1970; Gaoyang, as spoken in Yangjiang; and Guinan (Nanning dialect) spoken widely in Guangxi. However, Cantonese generally refers to the Yuehai dialect.

For the last 150 years, Guangdong Province has been the home of most Chinese emigrants; one county near its center, Taishan (where the siyi or sei yap dialect of Cantonese is spoken), alone may have been the home to more than 60% of Chinese immigrants to the US before 1965, and as a result, Guangdong dialects such as sei yap (the dialects of Taishan, Enping, Kaiping, Xinhui Counties) and what we understand to be mainstream Cantonese (with a heavy Hong Kong influence) have been the major spoken dialects abroad.

If you speak of Cantonese spoken in America, it'd most likely be the Taishan/Siyi dialect of Cantonese, which is unintelligible to Yuehai Cantonese speakers, and has a quite different phonemic flavor.

I can't imagine a conversation between me and Skylee would sound harsh, blunt or awful

Living in Columbus, Ohio, USA, I hear a lot of Chinese from college students. Not being a Chinese speaker myself, I hear two distinctly different types which may be Cantonese and Mandarin, but I'm not sure.

There are more than 2.

[tlr]

Bluepoppy, I will preview the Real files on Monday, thank you so much... and to everyone else, this is good information from all of you! Quest- to my ear, I only hear the two, but now that you mention it... I believe I have heard a subset what I would say now is Cantonese (by what you folks are telling me), except it had a more Vietnamese feel to it. The speakers were Chinese people. The feel was slightly more diversified in sounds but not with the smoothness of Mandarin.

Anyway, you all have been very helpful in this thread and another (regarding a relic), thank you so much.

[Quest]

Bluepoppy, I will preview the Real files on Monday

FYI, the Mandarin speaker sounds rather harsh, and the Cantonese speaker speaks at 2x the speed.

[skylee]

That example of Cantonese (the Real file) sounds pretty awful.

Try to take a look at this news clip. The reporters speak in Cantonese, whereas the government officials speak in Mandarin ->

http://news.tvb.com/630pm/lcd.html?2005/0118/asx/01_200k.asx&2005%u5E741%u670818%u65E5%20%28%u4E8C%29

[Haoqide]

tlr...I'm wondering if the dialect you mentioned that sounds like an in-between Cantonese and Mandarin language is Fujianese. I'm by no means the expert on Chinese dialects, but I have a lot of Fujianese friends, and the sounds of their language seem to me to sound like a good mix between those 2 dialects. There are LOTS of Fujianese people in America. They seem to be the most common group I come across, so that could be it. Just a thought...

[xuechengfeng]

tlr, do you go to Ohio State?

[tlr]

I used to. Graduated from CCSC, though. OSU has alot of Chinese there, I notice. Well, any school in Columbus does, really.

Oh hey, if you're in the neighborhood, check out Asian Wonders on Bethel Road. I love going into the shop, it's where I get gung fu supplies and tea. The owners are very nice; they speak Mandarin.

[Guest IVYtony]

I speak Mandarin and I like mandarin.

I don't understand any cantonese words.

awful accent, but still popular in NA and south china.

when I kidded somebody, I usually use Cantonese accent.

[hparade]

Well, I think those are just personal opinion and feelings, so speakers of any languages/dialects don't be offended;

and the sounds of their language seem to me to sound like a good mix between those 2 dialects

I agree with this.

[Quest]

The reason I pointed out the subdialects of Cantonese was because they are very very different -- different pitch, tones, ending particles. Many people mistook 台山nannies' 台山话 as 广东话。That is why I often hear imitators of Cantonese using "waaaaaa waaaaaa waaaaa". That is definitely not the 广东话/广州话 that I am accustomed to; there is no "waaaaaaa" ending in 广州话。My Fujianese friends think 广州话 sounds good, and 台山话 sounds very harsh like Vietnamese.

To me 广州话 sounds very musical:

conversation

天衣大哥，诸葛正我点解会死嘎？

佢琴晚喺春风烟雨楼度饮酒，一时饮多咗，畀人乘机刺杀嘅。

佢咁好武功，点会有人刺杀到佢呀？

冇人睇到行凶嘅过程，只係知道一刀致命，睇嚟係高手所为。

都唔出奇呀，以前佢身居要职，都唔知结落几多仇家，而家一旦失世咯，

啲仇家咪乘机嚟寻仇啰。

小镜，如果你想见正我最后一面嘅，可以入内堂。

audio

[Claw]

Here's a commercial from Hong Kong I found posted on another forum that features several different dialects: http://rmwebcast.isd.gov.hk/tvapi/chi/newarrival_c.rm (with English subtitles: http://rmwebcast.isd.gov.hk/tvapi/eng/newarrival_e.rm)

你我同心　活出和諧

廣東話：無論來自那裏，住了多久

貴州話：大家都是香港這個大家庭的成員

廣東話：大家就是自己人啦！

北京話：大家是香港大家庭的成員

福建話：既然是自己人

廣東話：有甚麼問題

上海話：就要提出來

廣東話：大家一定會幫忙！

客家話：只要每個人

福建話：自己人！

潮州話：都願意出多一分力

常州話：只要每一個人

天津話：行多一步

廣東話：無分彼此

潮州話：互相照顧

客家話：大家就可以發揮團結的力量

廣東話：自己人嘛！

客家話：共同創造一個和諧的社區

廣東話：大家都是自己人嘛！

螢幕蓋字：你我同心　活出和諧

Cool idea for a commercial.

[wame]

广东话不好听,福建话好听