好主意 (What tones?)

[Altair]

请指导

In one of the first tapes I used to study Chinese, they had the phrase 好主意. For some reason I could never figure out, it seemed to be pronounced with the tones hao3 zhu2 yi5, rather than as hao2 zhu3 yi4. Has anyone heard of this phenomenon; and if so, can anyone explain it?

[xuechengfeng]

I believe I also pronounce it Hao2 zhu3 yi4

[cutty]

咳,不需要用这个了,直接用COOL!!!就可以了 ...

[CBC]

It should be Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, but I don't know how to explain it.

[39degN]

nothing special, it's just a 多音字( i dont know the linguistic name, it's just a charactor has more than one pronunciation with different meaning.)

it's hao3 zhu2 yi5.

or hao3 zhu2 yi4

zhu3 yi4 sounds too foreign to me. unless that's 主义.

[florazheng]

北方３９度好．．．前阵子再到这里想起了你．．．以前对的对联．．．有趣． ．

[Altair]

It should be Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, but I don't know how to explain it.

CBC, what do you mean by "should"? Are you saying that this is the best way to pronounce this phrase, or the only "correct" way?

39degN, can you use second tone for the 主 in 主意 no matter where this phrase occurs, or only after 好? In other words, do you use second tone for the 主 in 我有个主意?

By the way, two possible technical translations of 多音字 or 破音字 are "homographs" and "polyphonic characters." The 主 in 好主意 did not seem like the other 多音字 I am familiar with, because I had only heard it used in this one phrase. I know of no multi-character word that changes pronunciation according to the phrase it is used in; however, if 主意 can be used with this pronunciation generally, then I guess it is not special at all.

[HashiriKata]

It should be Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, but I don't know how to explain it.

主意 is normally pronounced as zhu3 yi5. When a 3rd tone precedes it, the preceding 3rd tone changes into the 2nd tone. Therefore, 好主意 is pronounced as Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, just as you said. Easy, isn't it?

Ok, although I can explain it, don't assume that I can speak Chinese!

[39degN]

flora, 好久不见了,你还好吧! 是啊, 有时间继续对!

[39degN]

Altair wrote:

39degN, can you use second tone for the 主 in 主意 no matter where this phrase occurs, or only after 好? In other words, do you use second tone for the 主 in 我有个主意?

yes, you can say that again. i use the word this way everywhere, and i've never heard of anybody else says zhu3 yi4, the third tone.

HashiriKata worte:

When a 3rd tone precedes it, the preceding 3rd tone changes into the 2nd tone. Therefore, 好主意 is pronounced as Hao2 Zhu3 Yi5, just as you said. Easy, isn't it?

that's another rule, i.e. when a two-character-word combined by two third tone characters, the first character USUALLY pronounced second tone in SENTENCE, but this is not the case.

主意 just pronunced as zhu2 yi4 everywhere.

[39degN]

By the way, two possible technical translations of 多音字 or 破音字 are "homographs" and "polyphonic characters." The 主 in 好主意 did not seem like the other 多音字 I am familiar with, because I had only heard it used in this one phrase. I know of no multi-character word that changes pronunciation according to the phrase it is used in; however, if 主意 can be used with this pronunciation generally, then I guess it is not special at all.

yeah, the translatino could be that!

i didnt realise the pronunciation is different before either.

[trevelyan]

#$%*&% inconsistent tonal language!

Just checked this with a native speaker. She claimed it should be zhu2yi4, and that maybe you should naturally turn the last tone into the fifth when speaking.

Go figure, right?

[39degN]

yeah, that's it! and i speak northern mandarin all my life. (of coz not according to standard of CCTV hosts)

[xiaoxiajenny]

We always say Hao3 Zhu2 Yi4/5

It is no necessary to emphasize Zhu3!!

If you say Hao3 Zhu3 Yi4 people would

suspect that if you come from countryside

or you speak with a strong accent.

我有个好hao3主zhu2意yi4/5 sounds naturally

and I think this is what Pekinger say.

[Guest IVYtony]

I believe it should be hao3 zhu2 yi4.

主 is generally pronounced zhu3, but when it is between tones 3 and 4, its tones changes.

[in_lab]

So, this isn't the only case like this, IVYtony? Can you think of any more examples?

[Guest IVYtony]

another example:

我不是 小明。

pay attention to first three characters pronuncation.

normally, the first three words are pronounced Wo3 Bu4 Shi4

however, in this case (bu4 is between tone 3 and 4, so its pronunciation also changes, just as 主 zhu3-->2 changes as I said in last posting)

OK, let's go back to the sentence 我不是 小明。Correct pronunciation should be Wo3 bu2 Shi4 Xiao3 ming2

Also, there're some other rare examples that do not follow this rule I said above.

, hmmm, you can also access my web for more information. see my signature

[skylee]

I think the tone change has little to do with the 3rd tone before 不, no?

I think the rule is that when 不 is placed before a 4th tone (instead of between a 3rd tone and a 4th tone), it changes to 2nd tone. Is this not right? How do you pronounce 他不是? Is it "ta1 bu2 shi4" or "ta1 bu4 shi4"?

[HashiriKata]

How do you pronounce 他不是? Is it "ta1 bu2 shi4" or "ta1 bu4 shi4"?

It should be "ta1 bu2 shi4".

I think IVYtony may have mixed up two different things together.

[Guest IVYtony]

maybe I was wrong. native speakers are not that critical to their pronunciation.