Benny's travel plans, Shanghai to Chengdu to Beijing - suggestions?

[irishpolyglot]

Hey all! I'm going to set off on my 7 week excursion through China and could really do with some advice! I've decided to make my way as far as Chengdu, and then work my way back up towards Beijing. This map is my basic itinerary:

I'll be doing all this by land - probably getting the high speed trains as far as Wuhan, and then whatever else I can get from there.

I'm sure many here know China quite well, so I'd love to get some tips, especially the following:

• What route should I take from Wuhan to Chengdu, that's both not a HUGE diversion (i.e. not going further south than Changsha), and leads to the possibility of visiting somewhere interesting, and is as efficient a route as possible.
  
• How much time would you recommend I spend in each place on this route, presuming I want to arrive in Beijing around the last week of May?
  
• What should I prioritise checking out on this stretch? While I will of course look at any beautiful temples and nice scenery, my priority is more cultural experiences that involve interaction with people, or something that people do that I can ask about. I'd like to meet interesting people and share their stories on video on my blog.
  
• Any other ideas or suggestions for this appreciated! Keep in mind that suggestions to visit places far off this stretch don't help much, as I want to use my time as efficiently as possible, so I can't get to know all of China on this particular visit, but I'll be back
  

Thanks a million!

[xuefang]

Sounds like a great trip! From the places you are going to visit, I've been to Chengdu, Xi'an and Beijing.

First of all I you check train timetables here: http://www.travelchinaguide.com/china-trains/

When I was traveling two years ago (Beijing - Pingyao - Xi'an - Chengdu - Guilin - Guangzhou) I knew which cities I wanted to visit (didn't have time for Kunming though) and on the train to the city I opened my Lonely Planet and marked those destinations I wanted to see.

I would have hostel recommendations, but the downside of those are that they are full of foreign travellers and you might end up speaking too much English or other languages than Chinese. In general I think eating in a small restaurants that only have a many in Chinese (no photos) would be great for language practice as you have to ask what the dishes are and order a non-meet dish. Also not so busy restaurants are great for chatting with the owners.

[jbradfor]

I haven't been there (yet!) but two other ideas that I would love to do and are somewhat on your way (near Chongqing) are

http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/32684-travel-on-yangtze-river-boats/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dazu_Rock_Carvings

If you like scenery, you might want to see 九寨沟, which, if my geography is right, is near Chengdu.

Personally, I wouldn't turn my nose up at flying. There seems to be a "SERIOUS -Chinese-travelers-take-trains" attitude that I don't agree with; personally, I'd rather fly for 2 hours and spend 8 hours touring and talking to people, than 10 hours on a train.

[irishpolyglot]

Personally, I wouldn't turn my nose up at flying.

Very good point, but I fly enough as it is!

Besides, I had this fantastic train ride in India that makes me more enthusiastic to take my time, and take advantage of similar opportunities: http://www.fluentin3months.com/no-words/ I've also bussed most of Brazil's coast between Porto Alegre and Natal (about 4,000km) and wouldn't have missed it for the world!

Also, I have no problem studying on trains, so I can work on the academic side of my Mandarin then (or save money on a night's accommodation when on the sleeper), and then enjoy the actual location when I get there even more!

I just got some advice from a friend and he tells me that I can go to Yichang from Wuhan in 5 hours, and get a sleeper from Yichang to Chongqing, then the worst of that stretch will be over. Ideally, I'd like to base myself out of both Chengdu and Xi'an for a week each, and investigate nearby areas. Your Chongqing suggestions look very interesting and certainly fit with the route!

I would have hostel recommendations, but the downside of those are that they are full of foreign travellers

My hostel days are done. I worked in a youth hostel for several months, and spent the better part of 5 years sleeping in youth hostels. I've got a Chinese friend to help me look for (and book) accommodation so I should be fine there! Thanks for the tips!

[yialanliu]

For Jinan, I foudn it to be pretty boring, so unless there's something you really want to see, there's other places in China that offers better things to do.

For Chengdu, add in Jiuzhaigou. It is 2-3 day trip but it is definitely worth it.

It is the Yellowstone for China and is the most visited national park in all of China and it's definitely worth it.

Remove Zhengzhou if you don't have time, since that place is like Xuzhou/Shijiazhuang. A train station city...not that much fun

From Chengdu toward Shanghai, see if you can cruise your way back a bit on the Yangtze River. You don't have to do all the way for like a 3 day trip for part of the journey is worth it.

For Hefei, add Yellow Mountain. Probably the most popular mountain in all of China for tourists.

Between Nanjing and Shanghai, add Suzhou for its gardens.

Since your chinese is pretty good, use www.elong.com for hotel rooms.

Your 7 weeks only covers half of China even though this trip proably only takes 3-4 weeks if you are quick. For the remainder, I'd suggest from Shanghai, go south to Xiamen and then west to Kunming as well, and of course some places in between but those 2 places deserve a visit.

[c_redman]

Are there trains you can just hop on as a whim in the mainland? I was under the impression there is more control over intercity travel than exists in other countries. In my limited experience, the station in Shanghai refused to give me a ticket, telling me I needed to do it through the hotel or a travel agent.

[yialanliu]

Are there trains you can just hop on as a whim in the mainland? I was under the impression there is more control over intercity travel than exists in other countries. In my limited experience, the station in Shanghai refused to give me a ticket, telling me I needed to do it through the hotel or a travel agent.

Depends on the trains. For D/G you need a form of ID.

For regular trains, you can buy tickets without an ID so you can scalp them.

Although, you can also get on D/G through 补票 in many places as well but I wouldn't recommend it to someone who is a foreigner.

[imron]

Agree with above about Jinan, you are better of going to Tai'an (and Tai Mountain) which is not too far away (and will be on the same train line for sure).

Likewise for Zhengzhou, though I figured this might be there because you wanted to visit the nearby Shaolin Temple (it's a couple of hours bus ride from Zhengzhou). If that's the case, personally I found the Shaolin Temple underwhelming, overly commercialised and so not worth the trip. I can imagine that it's only gotten worse in the 10 years since I was there.

Are there trains you can just hop on as a whim in the mainland?

Most trains. Not sure how long ago you were refused and what the reason was (possibly the D train issue requiring ID thing), but the most common reason for not being able to do this is that tickets for the train you want to catch are all sold out.

[c_redman]

Ah, it was indeed sold out.

[abcdefg]

Also, I have no problem studying on trains, so I can work on the academic side of my Mandarin then (or save money on a night's accommodation when on the sleeper), and then enjoy the actual location when I get there even more!

I have no profound advice, only a reminder that if you book hard sleeper, it's best to avoid the middle berth because you can't sit up. May not be relevant if you can study while reclining. (I can't.) Sometimes top berth is better, but not always. Lower berth has always got more head room. (In hard sleeper class, bunks are stacked three levels high; in soft sleeper class, they are only two levels high.)

Personal observation that also may or may not be relevant for you is that I find it really difficult to get a good night's sleep on a Chinese overnight train. I can nap intermittently, but seldom arrive at my destination well rested and raring to go. (It may be germane to add that while you are young, I am old.)

One other suggestion: Post your itinerary to Thorn Tree travel forum as well as here. I've traveled a lot in China and always found them helpful in figuring out logistics.

[GaryM]

I have visited Shanghai, Beijing, Shenzhen, Guangzhou and Hangzhou. Of these I liked Hangzhou the most. It only takes an hour or so to get there from Shanghai.

You can stay in a hotel by the West Lake and rent a bicycle to go to one of the nearby temples, taking a walk by the lake in the evening. Even if you only spend one night there I would recommend it.

I found the people in Hangzhou to be friendly. There are lots of tourists who I am sure you could strike up a conversation with. I think that is easier to do than in places like Shanghai and Beijing where everyone is working. The place has a really nice feel to it. If you go to the temples everyone is very relaxed.

If you go on a long trip by train, I would go for the Soft Sleeper. On both occasions I have done this, people have always engaged me in conversation and offered to share their food and snacks. It is a good idea to take some of your own to offer.

[skylee]

One other suggestion: Post your itinerary to Thorn Tree travel forum as well as here. I've traveled a lot in China and always found them helpful in figuring out logistics.

Ah I miss thorn tree. Why don't I use thorn tree now?

[renzhe]

Likewise for Zhengzhou, though I figured this might be there because you wanted to visit the nearby Shaolin Temple (it's a couple of hours bus ride from Zhengzhou). If that's the case, personally I found the Shaolin Temple underwhelming, overly commercialised and so not worth the trip. I can imagine that it's only gotten worse in the 10 years since I was there.

This is true, but I liked it anyway, having grown up with kung fu movies. You also get a walk along the cliffs of Song Shan, which was amazing.

What's cool about the Shaolin temple is that you can visit it from Luoyang, which is an old capital, and while it is somewhat rough around the edges, it has a renovated old town, and two of the coolest places I visited in China: The Baima Temple and the Longmen Caves. Luoyang itself is not as touristy as many of the big cities, but you'll have to watch out for pickpockets and people trying to cheat you.

In any case, I recommend:

- taking hard sleeper trains -- you'll have plenty of people to talk to

- visiting one of the sacred mountains. Hua Shan was fantastic, and it's a short bus ride from Xi'an, Huang Shan, Tai Shan and Song Shan are all amazing.

- visit one of the water villages in Jiangsu. I went to Zhouzhuang, which was really beautiful. It's packed with tourists, but it's all Chinese tourists.

- Hutong tour by bicycle. Yeah, it's a cliche, but it's wonderful.

[Ludens]

Personally, I wouldn't turn my nose up at flying. There seems to be a "SERIOUS ™-Chinese-travelers-take-trains" attitude that I don't agree with; personally, I'd rather fly for 2 hours and spend 8 hours touring and talking to people, than 10 hours on a train.

Trains can be excellent places to talk to people, everybody is bored and they can't escape you. It also gives you a feeling of actually travelling to a place and experiencing the distance, instead of just magically showing up. Also taking into account environmental issues, I would definitely turn my nose up at flying!

[skylee]

I agree with abcdefg's #10, especially if the prices of flight tickets are competitive.

[Ludens]

I have no profound advice, only a reminder that if you book hard sleeper, it's best to avoid the middle berth because you can't sit up. May not be relevant if you can study while reclining. (I can't.) Sometimes top berth is better, but not always. Lower berth has always got more head room. (In hard sleeper class, bunks are stacked three levels high; in soft sleeper class, they are only two levels high.)

I would actually recommend getting the top berth. It gives you most privacy, and it's the cheapest. If you get the lower berth, people will sit on your bed all day long. If you want to sit, you can sit on the lower berth or on one of the (folding type) chairs.

[panda23]

if you book hard sleeper, it's best to avoid the middle berth because you can't sit up

you can't sit up in the top bunk either.

For D/G you need a form of ID.

For regular trains, you can buy tickets without an ID so you can scalp them.

No, you need to show ID for all trains now. I was required to show my passport when buying K train tickets last week. Also, it is possible to get tickets on the day you want to leave, just don't expect to get anything comfortable (you might have to stand).

[amandagmu]

For cheap plane tickets, I think qunar.com is what people were using a few months ago. Looks like they also have a hotel section on the website...

Any hotel rooms you can book ahead of time, I would do it through the Chinese site but not pay upfront (if possible). I can't remember what the popular websites are, but the Chinese websites almost always gave me better deals when I booked and I took my reservation code to the reception at check-in. Like, at least 25-50% off whatever you would otherwise be quoted in-person or through an English website. My memory is failing me, but I swear there's another popular hotel booking website... Just keep your mobile full charged up as they'll SMS you all the important info, including reservation codes and cancellation numbers.

About the trains. The thing about China - especially as compared to Taiwan or, well, most places in the world - is that depending on where, when, how you want to travel (type of train, day) this can be a pain in the rear, or go really smoothly. When I was in Shanghai I found it surprisingly easy, for example, to buy tickets. Especially to Hangzhou. Flying or taking the train in/out of Hongqiao was just ... easy. In sharp contrast: Beijing North station, avoid at all costs for ticket buying. The station is full of pushing people and unfriendly workers. When you get into a line - if there IS one that is - be prepared to be an a**hole and shove yourself in front of people. And have all your train numbers ready to shout out to the person behind the window. Shout louder than the other screaming people and you'll be fine.

Now, hopefully they have made it somewhat easier for foreigners wanting to travel, and you can visit a local 小卖部 of train tickets and just get them to give you the tickets. I think it's for the faster trains (D and G), but basically you need to have your personal identification number on the ticket. Last summer this was an issue and the small shops refused to do it for me. I then had to go to the station as noted above for D tickets to 长春. It was awful. I discovered a trick. I went into the local 小卖部 and as I predicted, they told me to go to 北京车站. I told them no, I wanted to buy them here, NOW, because I was busy and didn't have time. I had all my train numbers and times written down (this is REALLY important - get a copy of the schedule and know the train number and class you want; they seem to go by numbers rather than times). After some back and forth banter (mostly pleading and pushiness by me -- especially since I was their only customer at the time), they agreed to call the reservation line and get me some kind of number related to my passport id number. At first, they wanted me to get the number, but the system over the phone was broken and I handed it over to them. The lady helping me made several additional phone calls and got someone else on the phone who helped her with a number for me. I then handed over my cash and got my ticket in about 2 minutes. Of course, I couldn't buy my return ticket since it was more than 10-14 days out (or whatever it is for the G trains).

Bottom line: train ticket buying in certain parts of China can be a royal pain in the rear. (Again, the train ticket places in Shanghai seemed to be much less hassle in Beijing - I bought at Hongqiao station and also at the location next to Jingan temple and both were fine.) One crappy thing (maybe it's fixed now but I dunno) is that last summer, after they opened the G trains to the public between Beijing and Shanghai, no one could get a non-G train between the two cities, such as an overnighter. The tickets were constantly sold out, whereas the G trains were half-empty (but several times the cost, of course).

[skylee]

I would think that the most popular Chinese hotel/flight tickets booking websites are ctrip.com and elong.com. They are ok, quite reliable.

[xiaocai]

Why don't you just take a train directly from Wuhan to Chongqing? It takes about 16 hours so may not be so much longer than the Wuhan-Yichang-Chongqing route. And Wuchang station of Wuhan is a major terminal, which means it may be easier for you to get a sleeper ticket there. Dazu rock carvings near Chongqing are worth a visit if time allows.

As for where to go, it really depends on your taste. Someone mentioned Jiuzhaigou. Well, I'd say it is worth going if you have never been to places like that before at all, since you plan to spend one whole week at Chengdu. Normally you will need 3 days if you do not want to be too rushy. This is because you will spend quite some time on the road. It may be shortened if you take plane, but the tickets are expensive and hard to buy unless you book really well in advance. BTW, the admission ticket to Jiuzhaigou is also expensive too. After you get in there, personally I'd recommend to find a tibetan family to stay overnight, even if the tourist info centre advises not to do so, basically because you will have to buy another ticket if you want to get back in there on the second day if you stay in a hotel outside of the valleys... For the rest four days you can go to Emeishan (a two day trip if you plan to climb yourself. I think it is about 2500m elevation at least from the foot of the mountain so be prepared... ) and visit the giant buddha at Leshan, and 1 days to explore around Chengdu and visit the giant panda conservation centre. And probably one day to get yourself ready for the trip to Xi'an.

I've always taken trains from Chengdu to Xi'an. It is usually overnight sleeper. I think the railway itself is also quite amazing. Tickets were easy to buy as of 2009, but I have not idea how it is like now. Plane tickets are cheap and it is only like a 45 minute flight (you will probably spend more time transiting from CBD to the airport as Xi'an airport is actually in another town ~50 km away...). Then you can go to Huashan from there either by train or bus. If you don't want to miss too many scenes then start in the morning, sleep on the mountain and wake up early the next day and you can watch the famous sunrise. Huashan is more dangerous to climb compared to many other famous mountains in China so please be more careful. However, if you happen to be in Xi'an During 51 Labour day break, do not go to Huashan as it will be packed and almost impossible to go up or down on there, let alone finding accommodation. And the you can go to see the terracottas and the tombs (too many to name...), which will be probably another two days. Xi'an is a more interesting place than Chengdu, I think. There are many museums worth going (such as 碑林博物馆 and 陕西历史博物馆) and the food there is nice too. So give yourself at least two days there if you are into history and food.