ThatBlokeDave Posted April 11, 2012 at 06:31 PM Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 at 06:31 PM Hello All, I came across the following sentence: 今天老李給我拿來了一瓶法國酒。 Today Old Li brought me a bottle of French wine. I don't have a problem understanding it but I do have a problem reproducing this kind of grammar pattern naturally. If I had tried it off the cuff, I would have probably come out with something like: 今天老李拿來了給我一瓶法國酒 Which is probably incorrect... In all honesty I would have probably omitted the 拿來了 all together but then I guess I would have lost the clarity that (s)he brought / carried the wine and gave it personally. So my questions boil down to these, what are the rules behind using both 給 and 拿來 in a sentence?? Must something /someone always go in between? can they appear next to each other? can 給 ever come after 拿來? etc Ohh and on an unrelated note: Who is the subject in this? me or 老李? I can never decide when trying my poor attempts at parsing sentences Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiMaKe Posted April 11, 2012 at 07:21 PM Report Share Posted April 11, 2012 at 07:21 PM 给 can be a verb or a preposition (even a particle used for emphasis). In the first sentence, it is a preposition ("for the benefit of" or simply "to") while 拿 is the action verb with the directional complement 来. The subject is 老李. To me, 拿来 here means "bring" while 给 would mean (as a verb) "give". Slightly different meanings. So the pattern is: subj 给 receiver 拿来 object being received. You could also say 他给我一瓶酒。 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
陳德聰 Posted April 12, 2012 at 01:14 AM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 01:14 AM To kind of piggyback on SiMaKe's post, this is a pattern you can use with more verbs than just 拿. We can use 给 to show when we do things for other people. 我给她买了花儿 她给我带来了快乐 (hehe ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
count_zero Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:09 AM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:09 AM This seems pretty easy to me. Just get used to using 给 a bit more than you would "give" 给我推荐以下 Give me a recommendation 给我开发票 Print out an official receipt for me 给我拿来一瓶酒 Bring me a bottle of booze Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted April 12, 2012 at 06:04 AM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 06:04 AM We can use 给 to show when we do things for other people. This here is what I would recommend for learning this use of 给 - think of 给 as 'for [someone]'. The following is a good example: 给我开发票 Print out an official receipt for me There can be a commanding/imperative tone to this usage of 给 (e.g. in the example above), so make sure you use it carefully. You can accompany it with 请 or 可以...吗? to make it a request. Even more undemanding is to substitute 帮 for it and throw in a 请/可以: 可以帮我拿来一瓶酒吗? Could you get me a bottle of booze? 帮 and 给 play the same grammatical role, in this case. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatBlokeDave Posted April 12, 2012 at 06:05 AM Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 06:05 AM Thanks everyone... I guess I am overcomplicating it in my mind since "giving" is implied in English when someone "passes" or "brings" you something. The understanding is not a problem, I am just having trouble reproducing it naturally and was hoping there might be a nice memorable rule to learn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted April 12, 2012 at 06:11 AM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 06:11 AM I guess I am overcomplicating it in my mind since "giving" is implied in English when someone "passes" or "brings" you something. 给 here does not mean give. It's acting as a grammatical marker equivalent to English 'for'. Ohh and on an unrelated note: Who is the subject in this? me or 老李? I can never decide when trying my poor attempts at parsing sentences 老李給我拿來了一瓶法國酒。 Strip out the 給我, and you have the basic sentence [老李 subject] [拿來了 verbal] [一瓶法國酒 object] 給我 isn't really an object, but I'm not familiar enough with technical grammar to give it a proper label. Coverbal? It's basically the same thing as "for me" in the sentence "Li brought a bottle of beer for me." 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatBlokeDave Posted April 12, 2012 at 07:13 AM Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 07:13 AM That is a good way of thinking about 給 being "for" rather than give in this scenario. I sometimes get lazy with words I think I know and assign the wrong meaning to them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neverending Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:03 PM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:03 PM I find the Allset Grammar Wiki useful for quick reference on rules like these. It describes most of the grammatical patterns you'll encounter at beginner/intermediate levels: http://resources.allsetlearning.com/chinese/grammar/ASG3ORNN That webpage seems to indicate that the two orderings given have no different effect on the meaning of the sentence, which answers another of your questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
creamyhorror Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:41 PM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:41 PM http://resources.all...rammar/ASG3ORNN I don't think that's a very suitable explanation of this pattern, in this case. The explanation on that page is for another structure that has the same form but means something else. Consider: 你给我站住！ (standard) 你站住给我！ (nonstandard) 给 here means "for the sake of [person]" rather than "at/to [thing/person]". The "for" usage generally requires 给X to be placed before the relevant verb, as shown in the example above. An exception would be structures like "我 [跳舞] 给 [他看]" = Person [verb] for [person+clause] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwq Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:59 PM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 05:59 PM I usually take (1) "給A...(verb)" to mean "do something for A", while (2) "(verb)...給B" to mean "Bring/Give/... something to B". I think this also works, correct me if I'm wrong: 今天老李給我拿來了一瓶法國酒給小王。 Today Old Lee brought Little Wong a bottle of French wine for me. (Maybe I asked him to before, and now Old Lee is doing this for me) 你給我打個電話給小張。 Make a call to Little Chang for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imron Posted April 12, 2012 at 10:44 PM Report Share Posted April 12, 2012 at 10:44 PM 你給我打個電話給小張。Make a call to Little Chang for me. I'm not a native speaker but this double usage of 给 seems strange to me. In those two cases, I think it would be better to say something like 今天老李替我给小王拿来了一瓶法国酒 and 帮我给小张打电话 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Wong Posted April 13, 2012 at 12:04 AM Report Share Posted April 13, 2012 at 12:04 AM 100% agree with imron. 赞同！ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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