Choosing HSK level and vocabulary study method

[insighter]

Part I)

I'm planning on taking an HSK test sometime in the next two months. I've seen some threads discussing the new HSK vs. the old HSK, but I've never seen suggestions for how to decide which level to take.

So how do people decide? My dilemma right now is whether to take HSK level 4 or 5. Recently I previewed the vocabulary list for level 4 and I'd say I know about 90% of the vocab so I was thinking of trying level 5, but other areas besides vocabulary are weaker so I'm still unsure.

Taking timed practice tests at each level might help, what would the score cutoffs be for switching levels?. For example, would getting less than a 50% on a practice mean this test would be too difficult ?

Also, switching levels seems to come with a trade off. You have the possibility of getting a near perfect score on a lower level test (i.e, level 4) or a lower score on a higher level test (level 5,6 etc.). Is a higher score or a higher level more "impressive"? Or does score not really matter and it's more important to just pass the darn thing.

Part II)

How do people approach studying the vocabulary?It seems just throwing 2,500 (new?) words into your Anki or Pleco SRS system seems like it could cause problems. At the same time it seems like a helpful step for if I wanted to work towards the level 6 test one day.

Thoughts?

Thanks

(....edited because I'm too long winded late at night)

[patphilly]

I can't really give super insightful advice on part I because I'm now only studying for level 3

For Part II, I was indeed wondering the same thing! I find it tedious enough and pretty long to approach and revise my current list of 600 words. But 2500 or 5000 words to revise or even learn seems like a pretty scary and huge task. How do you guys study if doing it by yourselves (let's say, being outside of china with little daily exposure to chinese), any fun method or helpful book to approach the vocabulary in a less tedious way?

[yialanliu]

The jump between 4-5 isn't vocab in my opinion. It's the ability read fast enough sinceI think time pressure was the main factor for me and for most people who take it.

So, if your reading is good, you should go for 5.

Also keep in mind that you need 180/300 to pass. That is actually a lot of leeway so you don't have to know 100% to take a higher level since you're not aiming for perfection but passing rates.

My method for studying is going to be different from many who use these forums. I don't use flashcards or any memorization. I just read and do textbook excersizes. I learn from reading and do those excersizes for retention. It's worked for me and I passed level 5 without ever using Anki or any flashcard based system. My method probably doesn't work for most but if you can't memorize, it's definitely not the end of the world. If you like flashcards, do use them since there are people who can do like 1000 words a month, something I can't do. Although I can easily tell you the 10+ different meanings and use each meaning for 了and 就 whereas flashcard people probably don't go as in depth with each word.

[rebor]

Yeah, the boring truth is, as always, that people are different, so different people will find different approaches more suitable. I am a "flashcard person". For me it has made all the difference - I feel that I am constantly expanding my knowledge instead of forgetting at least as much as I learn, I find it easier to distinguish between similar characters, and I find it much easier to make learning characters a habit. That said there are probably a lot of people like yianlanliu who find other, more "natural" ways of studying superior. For me, learning chinese is also learning how to learn chinese - after X amount of time you will not only have X amount of time's worth of accumulated knowledge of chinese, but also X amount of time's worth of accumulated knowledge of how to study chinese. If I were you I would experiment in a structured way for a while(say 50% flashcards and 50% doing workbook exercises as an example) and see what you like. As for flashcards, showing up everyday and dividing up the workload in order to do an roughly equal amount every day tends to work best for me, and should help make the review load more even(I think, or have I misunderstood SRS? I'm not very knowledgeable regarding it's mechanisms, just happy that smart people have made it work for me).

(Of course I do not only use flashcards, I use textbooks and classes for listening comprehension, grammar, kouyu, pronunciation etc. My points above are all related to using flashcards for vocabulary)

[jkhsu]

Actually, there are probably very few people in these forums who don't use flashcards at all. It's comforting to know that there is at least another person, other than me, who does not. However, IMHO, using some form of SRS flashcarding is probably a more efficient way to increase your vocab because it focuses your time on words that you don't know. If I were studying to pass an HSK test by a certain date, I would definitely use flashcards (in combination with reading of course). However, I don't have this goal or time pressure, and I happen to enjoy reading much more than flipping through flashcards, so I just do the reading part.

Now, if the OP or anyone else wants to experiment without flashcards, I suggest, in addition to doing textbook exercises, re-reading textbook passages to increase speed. And I don't mean reading it just two or three times. Re-read what you've learned once a week until you instantly recognize words / phrases. Of course the more you learn, the more you have to re-read, therefore, you're forced to read faster. Intermediate level textbooks got me through HSK 4 fine. It's nice to know that someone was able to get through HSK 5 using only textbooks though.

[WestTexas]

Doing the entire 5000 word level 6 list in Anki seems like a daunting class, but if you just do 15-20 new words per day, perhaps with a few breaks, you will have all of them done in less than a year. I recently finished the entire HSK 6 list in Anki. I knew probably about 90% of everything below level 6 before I started, and maybe half of level 6, so it did not take me one year. But when you consider that knowing all the HSK words is going to ostensibly allow you to pass the highest level of exam available for foreigners, 1 year really isn't that long.

[insighter]

yialanliu- Thanks for pointing out the fact that reading speed will be the more difficult part. Is there any way to estimate how fast you would need to read to be able to take the test? I'm not an avid reader (maybe an article every other day and I've only finished one book) so this may be a problem, but again..... it's tough to say. Do you know your reading speed?

Also good point about some limitations of flashcards. Recognition and superficial knowledge can help you get-by in a given situation but you're still limited in many ways unless you have a deep grammatical understanding or have lots of situational experience using the word.

rebor- Yeah, I'll probably spend about 50% on flashcards and 50% on workbooks. Still need to decide which workbooks to get though.

jkhsu- Ok, thanks for the tips on increasing reading speed. I'll try doing the re-reading passages multiple times thing, I've never heard of that before.

WestTexas- Yeah, I would agree that level 6 is a worthy goal but my sights on a bit lower. So I guess if we do things by your math 20*60= the maximum amount of new vocab you could process. Maybe I should only do a test where I'd need to learn 1,200 words maximum. Not sure if that puts level 5 out of reach.

Good to hear the ideas! Still not sure what level I'll take though.... Maybe it depends too much on the individual but I'd still appreciate a "guestimation" for what level someone who's studied for 3 years plus not quite a years overseas study time should take.

[外国赤佬]

I never used flashcards. And I never actually put a lot of effort in the textbooks, either. The Chinese grammar is very simple, the expressiveness of the language lies in the huge vocabulary, which is often very specific and its proper use cannot be described by just a few English words on a flashcard.

I pretty much abandoned the academic method once I was familiar enough with the core grammar. Instead, I immersed myself in the local culture. Chats, forums, TV, music, soap operas, news, etc, etc. I'm not even talking about making a lot of (girl)friends and talking with them every day, this is a must. Truth to be told, I would get more out of classes if I spent them chatting with my QQ friends on my mobile.

I had absolutely no problems in passing HSK5 after only one and a half year of studying Chinese. The main thing about quickly mastering a foreign language is the full immersion. But you will have to sacrifice a lot of your former habits, of course.

[jkhsu]

Maybe it depends too much on the individual but I'd still appreciate a "guestimation" for what level someone who's studied for 3 years plus not quite a years overseas study time should take.

How comfortable are you with reading newspapers and understanding TV shows? Just from personal experience, I found HSK5 much more difficult than HSK4. You're pretty much doubling the number of characters and words you need to know from HSK4. I think the following excerpt from wikipedia is pretty accurate:

HSK5:

"Designed for learners who can read Chinese newspapers and magazines, watch Chinese films and are capable of writing and delivering a lengthy speech in Chinese."

Do a search. I know there are some sample tests floating around somewhere. Since you're planning to take the test in the next 2 months, I'd go with the one that you can comfortably read through the reading comprehension sections. You'll figure out your level right away once you try out the sample tests.

[外国赤佬]

Thanks for voting down my post for expessing my opinion. I'll try my best to refrain from doing so in the future.

[insighter]

Well I appreciated your insights......so I'm sorry, but who exactly voted you down?

[jkhsu]

Thanks for voting down my post for expessing my opinion.

For the record, I didn't vote you down either. I also wouldn't take these things personally as anyone can vote up / down a post for whatever reason. In general, I've found that the tone of one's post can contribute to others thinking negatively of that post. Personally, I liked the info that you provided in your post and as I've said before, it's always nice to know that others can reach a high level of Chinese in such a short amount of time, especially without flashcards or much textbook usage. However, to be honest, you did come across (at least to me) making Chinese sound extremely simple, and while it's great motivation, it can also turn off some learners who are still struggling after many years of learning. Passing HSK5 in 1.5 years from scratch is not an easy feat that anyone can do. Congrats!

For my own curiosity, what school / program did you attend? Did you have zero exposure to Chinese before you started learning?

[WestTexas]

HSK5:

"Designed for learners who can read Chinese newspapers and magazines, watch Chinese films and are capable of writing and delivering a lengthy speech in Chinese."

Those HSK level descriptions are extremely dubious, and I'm not the only one who has said so. In my experience the HSK 5 reading material is considerably easier than most native-language newspapers. And the listening material on the HSK 5 (or at least the various practice exams I've looked at) is nowhere close to the level required to watch a film or TV show. The Chinese people on those exams talk like robots, not to mention the vocabulary is much more restricted than that on a TV show.

[patphilly]

I know there has been an ongoing debate about the perceived discrepency between HSK level description and reality.

This statement by the German Association of Chinese Teachers backs this up nicely:

"in the interests of a proper and realistic assessment of Chinese language proficiency, we at the Fachverband Chinesisch, after examining the documents, consider it our duty to categorically deny the linking between the new HSK levels, as set out in the official HSK documents, and those of the Common European Framework of Reference for Languages (CEFR)"

http://www.fachverband-chinesisch.de/fachverbandchinesischev/thesenpapiereundresolutionen/FaCh2010_ErklaerungHSK.pdf

(English at the end)

[jbradfor]

Thanks for voting down my post for expessing my opinion. I'll try my best to refrain from doing so in the future.

I didn't vote it down either, but I have to say I was tempted. For people that don't have the time to spend 1.5 years doing nothing but studying Chinese, your advice is useless. And, I have to say, after 1.5 years of full immersion, HSK5 is not that impressive IMHO.

[jkhsu]

Alright, a couple of these posts (about the HSK5 being easier than I thought) have inspired me to try out a practice HSK5 test today. The last time I had looked at one was about 9 months ago. Back then, it looked hard. So I did the listening and reading sections and... it wasn't that bad at all! WestTexas is right. It's definitely not newspaper level. I've been spending about half an hour to an hour reading multiple textbooks and another hour watching TV shows per day. I'm sure if I had studied the HSK5 vocab list I would have progressed faster but I'm enjoying my leisurely pace and have no pressure to pass any of these tests. It's nice to know that my studying is paying off though.

[insighter]

Can communicate in simple and routine tasks requiring a simple and direct exchange of information on familiar and routine matters

Ok, if this is what the German Association of Chinese Teachers believes someone's abilities should be if they are on the the Level 4 HSK, then I'm going to have to take a stab at Level 5. In my humble opinion I can do something more with the language besides "routine and familiar tasks". Also did a bit of the listening comprehension for level 4 and got bored out of my mind, but I should just sit down and try do these sample tests I guess.

WestTexas and jkhsu: Good to hear some qualifying statements about the difficulty level for Level 5!