How much is it possible to learn in one year?

[Demonic_Duck]

Key word being in isolation. Instead, learn them as part of words. Sometimes, words are comprised of only one character, but more often than not they're comprised of multiple characters. So, learn words such as 是，很，我，也，爱，会 etc. in isolation (they may be only one character, but they are still words in their own right).

When it comes to multisyllabic words, the ideal is to learn them holistically - characters, pronunciation, meaning of the characters individually, and the word as a whole. Learning the meanings of the individual characters in, say, 明天, will help when you need to remember other words such as 聪明 and 天气. On the other hand, knowing the individual meanings of 明 and 天 alone won't tell you what 明天 means, but it might help you remember the word.

[Kai-Nub]

Here is a video of me speaking Chinese after one year of self-study:

You can probably do better, since--without being to hard on myself--I admit that my pronunciation leaves a lot to be desired.

Here are some things that I would have done differently in my year of self-study:

--more practice speaking with native speakers, asking them to speak slowly and clearly, the way they would to someone who maybe read a phrasebook on the flight over to China (getting it right, and getting it right slowly, is very important)

--less emphasis on learning characters (you get a lot of mileage out of about 500, and you need to make an exponential leap ahead before you will be able to read anything more than a street sign; for the first couple of years, make pinyin your friend...concentrate on the sounds of consonants, initials, finals, etc. Get someone who is Chinese and who is not impressed by a foreigner speaking Chinese to be brutally honest with you...it will make you better!)

--more exposure to Chinese sounds (I used to watch CCTV streaming in the morning, but, frankly, the programs are so boring that it really didn't hold my interest--I understand that PhoenixTV from Taiwan has sitcoms and other shows that might help). Do you have an iPod or iPhone? Make TuneIn Radio your friend...you can record Chinese language broadcasts for later playback using this very handy ap.

The most important piece of advice I can give you is making learning fun, fun, fun. If you don't enjoy it, you won't stick with it, and you will not make progress.

Also, keep using these forums. Most of the people here will seem to be light years ahead of you, but my guess is that there are more people here who speak Chinese terribly than those who speak it passably or above. Nobody who speaks terribly wants to advertize. But...think of yourself as someone who is just starting out and who wants to succeed in a career; we all weren't born with 2 years of experience!

[putonghua73]

The question is really how long is a piece of string. Of course, that is not helpful without qualifying why.

Forget about how much time you will have to study for the time being, and let's address the important points:

• Do you have a study plan that incorporates all 4 skills (speaking, listening, reading and writing)?
  
• Does your study plan incorporate short, medium and long-term goals?
  
• Does your study plan include any measurements i.e. how do you measure your progress against all 4 skills?
  
• Do you currently have a tutor / teacher?
  
• Do you or will you have exposure to Chinese on a daily basis i.e. native Chinese speakers?
  

The problem with focusing on the time factor, is that it usually is held as the predominate factor for weaker learners like myself. By that, I have been learning Chinese on/off for 6 years inc. 6 months spent at Keats studying 4 hours 1-2-1 tuition i.e. some considerable time and expense. My Chinese [speaking] still sucks.

The single biggest factor and motivator is oneself in terms of active study where one participates in one's learning and is engaged and thinking whilst studying. It's all too easy to have a robust study plan, materials, tutor and everything else, and simply be passive.

Whilst I was studying in Kunming, I bought the Harvard study guide that analysed why Harvard students in the 1950s achieved poor examination results. The conclusions were that the vast majority of students were intelligent but adopted poor study habits.

My Chinese is poor because over the years I've stopped, started, stopped, started and since returning from Kunming, largely stopped - although lately I've focused on studying during my commute. However, this has been reading and grammar, so my other skills - speaking and listening - have atrophied.

Once my assignments are out of the way at the end of next week, I'll kick-start a proper study plan that incorporates study every-day (even 30 minutes) to expose myself to Chinese. My language partner also wishes to encourage and push me to speak more Chinese.

There are no short-cuts. It's putting in the effort to push yourself to expose yourself to Chinese. There is a piece of chengyu (at work, so cannot type Chinese) that a teacher taught me whose meaning is essentially unless you use something, you'll lose it - so find ways to really focus on speaking and using your Chinese language skills, whether it be reading outloud (really good to focus on pronunciation) and/or going to regular Chinese meet-ups / language partner and speaking Chinese.

An ex-language partner of my ex-ex girlfriend in Japan, taught himself Japanese over the course of 2 years, to be able to pass the JLPT 2 and secure full-time work in Japan [Programming in C and low-level languages] despite living in the UK and being in full-time (non-Japanese related) work, without formal study. However, he is very intelligent, dedicated and focused i.e. he spent every working evening with a different language partner, pushed himself to speak Japanese and incorporate new learning in his conversation. His free time was essentially reading Japanese and watching Japanese tv programmes.

Very few people will be as dedicated as him and achieve his results. So better to develop a robust study plan, periodically measure progress and incorporate short, medium and long-term goals to help motivate you and feel as though you are making progress.

In short, make sure that you enjoy what you do and it isn't a chore.

Two comments: I fundamentally disagree with learning characters / words in isolation. My vocabularly improved immeasurably when I incorporated compounds and example sentences in my Anki study (a technique that I picked up from Chinesepod).

Expose yourself to other Chinese reading other than textbooks. The Chinese Breeze series is a fantastic way to read Chinese and expose yourself to simple (depending on level) Chinese in a narrative. And highly enjoyable!

P.s. Note to self: follow your own advice!

[putonghua73]

Apologies for replying to my own post - bad form, I know.

One of my biggest bugbears - not just with languages - is the (mis)use of terms to indicate proficiency i.e. beginnner, elementary, intermediate, advanced, fluency, etc. First of all, one could be at completely different levels in the 4 skills; second, unless one uses some form of quantitative measurement to define these proficiency levels, then they are meaningless measurements.

When I first studied Chinese at SOAS in London on a Saturday morning (2 hours) many, many years ago, SOAS provided a language acquisition proficiency guide produced by the EU, that allowed students to define and measure their progress in all 4 areas. When I get home, I'll post it in this thread to act as a starting point for helping build a study plan and building in milestones. Hopefully, other posters could provide attachments, links, etc to other measurement resources, that allows students to measure their current progress and develop a study plan to help them reach their goals, against quantitative measurements.

Needs Analysis.pdf

[icebear]

Hopefully, other posters could provide attachments, links, etc to other measurement resources, that allows students to measure their current progress and develop a study plan to help them reach their goals, against quantitative measurements.

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE

______

More generally responding to putonghua73's comments, I think its important for all learners to set realistic expectations for themselves given their other commitments and circumstances. Someone working 60 hours a week in a MNC office in Beijing where English is the lingua franca and studying bits and pieces on the weekends should probably expect a rate of progress similar to someone studying under similar conditions in London, not the same as a full time language student in Beijing or rural China. Even under heavy working schedules amazing results are possible if you are willing to fully sacrifice many other aspects of your life (e.g. socializing in your native tongue during your off time); for most people this isn't a reasonable trade off for a period of time as long as 1-2 years.

Those studying outside of China, independently, and without a clearly defined goal and punishment for not reaching that goal can only expect so much. Of course everyone should push themselves, and set goals just slightly beyond what is reasonable as part of that, but expecting an insanely high level after a year if your circumstances simply won't facilitate it is a recipe for giving up around 6-9 months in...

[rebor]

I think people tend to measure language learning in months or years, while what counts is the hours you put in(if I study chinese for 1 hour every two weeks for a year and then tell people I've been studying chinese for a year, that is technically correct but not a great way to put it in my opinion). And that's just measuring the quantity time. Of course, every hour is not equal. An hour spent attending a private class with a great teacher, while fully focused, usually yields better results than an our spent listening to podcasts in the car(of course this is a good use of that kind of low-quality time). A good start is to try to make a qualified guess of how much time you are going to have, and of roughly what quality it will be. I find building good habits is the most important thing in the long run. Doing less and doing it regularly will get you further than doing more but only sporadically, in my opinion, as people tend to turn "sporadically" into "not at all" after a while. Of course, everyone is different, and some people will disagree, but it is my opinion that forming habits is very helpful to a majority of learners.

[Median]

So, I'm getting ready to order NPCR. Planning on the textbook and workbook, should I also buy the audio CD's for the textbook? Seeing as they don't seem to follow with the book.

[deathtrap]

The new editions of NPCR come with an MP3 CD containing all the dialogue in the book. No need to buy the audio CD's separately.

[amandagmu]

I still stand by what I've written in other threads re: learning Chinese quickly. All of the above is all good advice, but a lot comes down to who you are and how you work. Frankly, I suck at self-study for languages. I don't know why, but I just won't push myself without a teacher and homework. If you need a kick in the pants like I did, save up your money (and vacation time) and ship yourself off to a reputable program where they do most of the planning for you. Sure, I complained about the programs, homework assignments, yada yada yada while I was taking classes because it was stressful-- but hey! I finally learned Chinese.