Chinese Travelguides

[Silent]

Has anyone experience with Chinese travelguides? I'm looking for travelguides in simplified chinese for mainland chinese destinations. I wonder what would be good all round (no specialised subjects) guides for an independent, medium to low budget travel. I'm aware lonelyplanet is translated to Chinese, but I imagine that the Chinese have their own guides with better/more extensive descriptions. But maybe Chinese travelguides are no good at all and are full of all kind of 'silly' typical chinese things to do?

Any experiences with Chinese travelguides? Any recommendations on which ones to use?

[Meng Lelan]

There has got to be independent travel guides in Chinese, last year I was strolling down Michigan Avenue in Chicago and on a street corner was a bunch of Chinese guys peering into a Chinese version of a travel guide to the US. It was really thick and had lots of pictures but I didn't think to stop and ask what publisher.

[fanglu]

I looked around a bit at Chinese travel guides for Yunnan earlier this year. I found they were mostly suited to people who weren't responsible for getting to places themselves - lots of historical/background information and little practical information. The one exception is the one published by the makers of the yododo website, which is more like lonely planet in its inclusion of things like how to get from A to B, ticket prices, etc.

On my trip I ended up using lonely planet for that kind of thing and a Chinese book for more background. The book was called 云南-万个为什么 or something like that and was really good in explaining the history of places I was going, which I find LP tends to be a bit lacking on. It had no practical information (tickets, itineraries, etc) and was only divided up by area (rather than city, or attraction) but it was still pretty good.

I would suggest just going to a bookshop and looking through the travel books until you find one you like. Might be hard to find ones for a part of the country other than where you are (for example in Yunnan I found very few about Sichuan).

[skylee]

I found they were mostly suited to people who weren't responsible for getting to places themselves - lots of historical/background information and little practical information.

I agree. This is the same as my observation. I generally do not rely on Chinese guidebooks, even if my destination is in China. For cities in China, travel guides published in HK (thus in traditional Chinese) can sometimes be used but not always. One can usually find more practical information (how to get from point A to point B, etc) by searching on discussion forums (thorntree and some other Chinese websites). I found all the useful info for my trip to Jinan and Mount Taishan online, not in any guidebooks.

[anonymoose]

If you'll be entering China via a large city, then just head to one of the main bookshops in town, and you'll find a large selection. At least the main bookshops in Shanghai have many guidebooks covering the whole of the country.

Few of the books have practical info about getting around, probably because things change so frequently here. That is not to say that you wouldn't be able to find any, though. I bought a good book covering Yunnan a few years ago that contained that kind of information.

I agree with skylee that the best place for practical information is on the net. However, do beware that many provinces now do not allow foreigners to use internet cafes* so getting onto the net is not always convenient.

*It's not that foreigners are banned specifically, but you need a Chinese ID card to be allowed in, and since foreigners don't have this, it effectively excludes them.

[liuzhou]

Might be hard to find ones for a part of the country other than where you are

I've actually found the opposite to be true.

My local Xinhua book store has guides to most provinces / major cities etc, but next to nothing on Guangxi. Presumably they think the locals know their own region and are more interested in other places.

[panpan86]

In terms of the Lonely Planet guides published in China, about China, in Chinese: they are not translations, they are written specifically for the local market by local travel authors. I used one for my trip to Guizhou and it was fairly effective. It definitely beats some other books (many of which are mostly full of full-colour top tens, must-try foods and features on 'cute' shops to visit) for logical organisation and breadth and density of information.

I would not suggest any particular series, as the quality varies from book to book and not every series covers every region - where are you planning to travel? Also, are you based in China or do you want to buy the books online?

[Silent]

Thanks for all the reactions. The suggestion to browse the bookstore doesn't really suit me. I'm in the Netherlands and my Chinese is far too poor to get a guide book on arrival and have real use for it. I see it more as a fun way to prepare the trip and actively use/practice my Chinese. So recommendations for good travelwebsites are welcome too.

Exact area I want to visit is a bit fluid at the moment. I have 5.5 weeks late autumn and arrive in and leave from Beijing and want to book a tour to North Korea. I prefer to focus on a limited area rather then rush around to see all the so called highlights. So as a rough indication I'll focus on the (greater) northeast.

[fanglu]

In that case I'd recommend the yododo books. I've only glanced at them to be honest, but the website is good, so I assume the books are too. Have a look here. I'm sure you can buy them online.

[jbradfor]

I found they were mostly suited to people who weren't responsible for getting to places themselves - lots of historical/background information and little practical information.

I've found this true of Chinese websites for tourist places as well. Lots of general information, but almost uniformly no information on how to get there!

Consider, for example, trying to get to "洛带古镇" (as a real example of what I'm trying to figure out now). Their web site is here. [i think, it's down right now....] Lots of information, great pictures .... but how the %*()#)@)_ does one get there. Or consider this web site, which claims "洛带古镇自助游". I can't find any information on how to get there.

Now contrast that to a typical Western site. I'm going to pick this one as a random example (something from my most recent travel in a Western country). On the very front page, "Visit Us -> How to get here", and then a page with information on driving or bus.

Maybe this is just a language issue, and it's there and I can't find it? But I've looked and looked....

[Silent]

Maybe not entirely the detail you're looking for but directions are there:

交通：洛带古镇距离成都市区约２０公里，交通十分方便。洛带的进出主要以公路为主。可在成都市内乘81路、58路等车到达五桂桥汽车站，那里有直达洛带的汽车，每几分钟就有一班。自驾车从成都至洛带仅半个多小时。五桂桥至洛带，可当天往返。

found at:

http://www.yododo.com/area/detail/1-01-25-05-6049

I recognise however the problem that it's extremely hard to find the info you want. As my Chinese is very limited and more important I'm pretty much unable to scan through a text and get any meaningfull info out of it. So I need to rely on layout and headers.

[skylee]

交通：洛带古镇距离成都市区约２０公里，交通十分方便。洛带的进出主要以公路 为主。可在成都市内乘81路、58路等车到达五桂桥汽车站，那里有直达洛带的汽 车，每几分钟就有一班。[/Quote]

" 等车" is not good enough, imo. Independent travellers need specifics, the more the better. This might seem quite demanding, though. I am in France and my rough guide does not list everything and I have to search on the internet for timetables and routes etc. But luckily in most cases I can find useful info online. This might not be true in China.

[jbradfor]

Silent, good job, I missed that. I think my point still stands -- it was pretty buried -- but at least it's there.

skylee, I agree. Also note how it fails to mention which bus to catch there? Maybe it's obvious (e.g. has "洛带古镇" on the bus), maybe it's not, but it should say.

I've been wondering why this is. I know individual travel is relatively rare in China -- even for domestic travel, Chinese typically take tours. So there is less need for this level of detail. Or maybe Capitalism is new enough that places haven't quite figured out how to "sell" themselves.

[anonymoose]

Or maybe Capitalism is new enough that places haven't quite figured out how to "sell" themselves.

I don't know, but entry tickets into many attractions are very expensive compared with average income. Entry to Huangshan is 230 yuan. And that is just to climb a natural low-maintenance mountain. Any extra services like transport to the entrance gate and use of the cable car are a significant additional expense.

By the way, "capitalism" doesn't need capitalisation.

[skylee]

jbradfor, it has mentioned bus routes 81 and 58, followed by an etc, meaning that there are other useful routes not mentioned.

I wonder if the cheap taxi fare and the tendency/preference to 包車 are part of the reason. I remember taking a taxi in Hangzhou and the taxi driver commented that if I weren't solo it would work out cheaper, say for a party of four, to rent his car for the whole day and he could also act as a tour guide.

[jbradfor]

[skylee, from what I've gathered, "达五桂桥" is a major bus station there. So 81 and 58 takes one to 达五桂桥, and from there one takes a non-stop bus to 洛带古镇. My comment was that in addition to being incomplete as you mentioned, it doesn't say which bus to take from 达五桂桥 to 洛带古镇. Back on topic now....]

skylee, another good point. Hiring a taxi for a day is typically reasonable in China, unless most other places.

anonymoose, true, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to lack of independent travel information. Assuming one does want to spend the money to go somewhere, wouldn't one need to know how to get there? Unless taking a group tour is so much cheaper that people do it to save money, but in my (limited) experience tours in China are typically more expensive than doing it oneself.

[anonymoose]

anonymoose, true, but I'm not sure how that is relevant to lack of independent travel information.

I was responding to your comment about capitalism.

As for travel information, I hadn't really thought about it so much before, but it does seem to be harder to obtain in China. Having said that, it seems that reliable information about anything is harder to find out here. I mean, many of the posts on this website are about finding information about universities and courses. Compared with western university websites, the websites of Chinese universities are disorganised and lacking in detail. Maybe it's just that there's less of a focus on serving the consumer here. After all, starting from the top, putting the public/consumer first has never been a priority.

[Silent]

等车" is not good enough, imo. Independent travellers need specifics

As I already wrote, maybe not as detailed as you like.... but then, how detailed do you want it? During preparation of a trip I basicly only want to know or there is easy/frequent/fair priced public transport. Planning a trip in detail just doesn't work for me.

To me a travel guide is primarily a way to get a fair impression about what is there that's worthwhile to see and a way to identify where transport or accomodation may be tricky. Then I make a general plan. From there I start travelling and adjust the general plan according to the actual situation, how I feel and view the options in that moment. Unless I have reason to believe transport is an issue (scarce or just important that I make the transfer in time) I inform locally and/or just head for the transport hub and see what my options are. Same for accomodation I see what I come across only if I get really stuck or when I am afraid that the room rates are (too) high I give it a bit more thought and/or grab the travelguide (when applicable). While travelling by bicycle, as I've done for years, this impression of the most important sights is virtually the only real use of a travelguide. Many towns you end up in are not described in any travelguide.

I feel a travelguide like lonelyplanet China gives only a very limited outline of what's there. That was my experience during my first Chinatrip where I discovered some very interesting gems not desribed in the lonelyplanet or (most) other guides aimed at overseas visitors. Now I'm preparing for my trip in autumn I get the same feeling. E.g. LP only describes only a handfull of places in Heilongjiang, while it's more then 11 times the size of my home country (Netherlands). Inner mongolia is even worse with only a handfull of places described for an area almost 30 times the Netherlands while I know there are a lot of interestings things to do and see. Most likely this autumn I'll travel by public transport, than it's much harder to dicover those hidden gems as I won't be able to just turn off when I see some pagodes in the distance and I won't pass through small villages to discover that it's worth a stop for some local market or fair.

[skylee]

jbradfor, yes you are right. I was not paying attention.

[Silent]

So there is less need for this level of detail.

I feel the level of detail is fairly useless. I mean there's a fair time lapse between research and printing of a travelguide. Then it has to last till the next edition (and many travel with older editions). Timetables change, bus routes change etc. The more detail is added the faster the info becomes dated. There also is no reasonable way to be complete with this kind of info. Last month for Morocco the lonelyplanet gave essentially the bus frequency for one recommended bus company while there are several companies on most routes. What's the point of these details? They only give false impressions that busses are rare. Just head to the busstation and you're likely to find a suitable ride at least for the not too distant towns and cities.