Dropping out of grad program and finding technical jobs?

[13cyberphoenix]

Hi, I am an Asian American currently living in America but I want to move out for personal reasons. I would like to move to Hong Kong, Japan or China (maybe Korea and Singapore also), but I have just started studying Japanese and Mandarin, so I'd probably have to spend 1-2 years in a language intensive program before I become fluent in either of them

I am currently a grad student in a STEM field but have another year to go to get my MS. I don't enjoy my grad program, so I'd really like to drop out asap. But if its much easier to find a job overseas with a MS, then I'd be willing to suck it up and stay for another year. I'm not really sure what kind of career I want to have, but I am mostly looking to become a software engineer. I may consider a career as an actuary or materials engineer also. But I don't see how employers hiring programmers would care if I had an MS instead of a BS in my field

Also, my undergrad and grad schools are considered almost the same prestige-wise by US standards. However, by East Asian standards, my undergrad school is considered much more prestigious than my grad school

If I wanted to get a technical job in China as a programmer/software engineer, am I wasting my time in this program? Am I better off just trying to build up work experience in IT here in the US? Or could I have a chance at applying for IT jobs in China, Hong Kong, or Singapore right now? I don't have much experience/skills in programming, as I only know a little bit of C++. Would enrolling in a language intensive program be a waste of time?

[feihong]

Your situation sounds rather similar to this guy's: http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/36822-masters-vs-chinese/

I'm pretty sure no one will hire you as a programmer if you only know a bit of C++. Also, studying Japanese and Mandarin at the same time will probably result in you being fluent in neither language after two years of study.

[gato]

It sounds like you'd like to live in Asia ASAP, regardless of your immediate job prospects. Generally, employers prefer to hire locals unless foreigners have some clear comparative advantages, which are not as clear in your case. Have you thought of applying to a HK or Singapore university for a computer science Master's degree? That might be the fastest way for you to start living in Asia while helping to develop your career prospects. If you are not in a hurry to move to Asia, then getting a computer science terminal Master's degree at a place like Stanford might be even better, as its prestige probably would make it easier for you to find a position in Asia, and it would also be a more prestigious degree for finding a job in the US, should you change your mind about Asia.

[13cyberphoenix]

yes, I saw that thread. It seems the people there said that having an MS is beneficial, but a foreigner can't be hired over a local unless he has excellent programming skills that is rare to find amongst the locals. Since my programming skills aren't great and probably won't improve that much if I continue with my MS, I'm thinking that I may be better off spending next year finding a programmer internship here in the US to build up my programming skills instead of wasting time studying my current field. Or is having the MS really that beneficial?

No, I never considered applying to a HK or Singapore school for a CSMS, but I might consider it.

[13cyberphoenix]

The other option I considered would be to drop out now and apply for English teacher jobs in China. After becoming an English teacher in China, then I could try to network and improve my programming during my free time to find a programming job. What do you guys think about this option?

[fanglu]

my undergrad and grad schools are considered almost the same prestige-wise by US standards. However, by East Asian standards, my undergrad school is considered much more prestigious than my grad school

I am interested in this. Can you explain please? What do you mean by US standards vs Asian standards?

[feihong]

The other option I considered would be to drop out now and apply for English teacher jobs in China. After becoming an English teacher in China, then I could try to network and improve my programming during my free time to find a programming job. What do you guys think about this option?

This is a bad idea. You aren't likely to improve your skills enough within a year to make you that much more hireable.

What exactly are your priorities? Getting a job, or taking time off after burning out on studies?

[13cyberphoenix]

I am interested in this. Can you explain please? What do you mean by US standards vs Asian standards?

The school I went to for my undergrad and graduate school are judged as above-average schools by most people and employers in the US. But most people in Asia probably have never heard of my graduate school while alot of them would recognize my undergrad school as being a prestigious school

[13cyberphoenix]

What exactly are your priorities? Getting a job, or taking time off after burning out on studies?

I just want to leave the US and make a living in another country. But it sounds like getting my MS in the US might be the best option in the long-term

[jbradfor]

I'm thinking that I may be better off spending next year finding a programmer internship here in the US to build up my programming skills instead of wasting time studying physics.

I don't think in one year you're going to acquire "excellent programming skills that is rare to find amongst the locals." Unless you have a knack for programming.

Maybe you can find an up-and-coming or unusual programming language, so even if it's not excellent, it will be rare. Not sure what that would be. Some new web / scripting language? Or maybe system admin on an unusual system?

Or is having the MS really that beneficial?

In physics, not so much. But it will set you apart.

Question: when you entered the MS Physics program, what were your career goal? I assume you had some?

[13cyberphoenix]

First of all, I entered the program with the intention of getting a phD. That was because I wanted to become a professor or find a job in a research job where having a phD was looked upon as more desirable than an MS. But I no longer wish to become a professor or work in a research lab, so thats why I want to either drop out or leave with just an MS

[thechamp]

You must be pretty good with numbers to have got that far....and maybe not that good at programming....so use your numeracy skills to apply for something like accountancy or actuarial jobs.....and before you change career focus remember AJAG

(All Jobs Are Gash)

[13cyberphoenix]

yes, I am thinking about a career as an Actuary. Anyways, I actually plan to spend my summer on vacation in Asia and will visit China in 2 weeks. Should I try to set up some interviews over there?

[gato]

I suggest that you get a Master's in finance at a university in HK or Singapore and go from there.. With a physics background, finance would be like child's play in terms of the calculations and your physics undergrad degree would be enough to impress people. (Real-world finance is another story. )

[jbradfor]

Overall I agree with gato.

Two other thoughts.

Have you looked into at your current University what it would take to change to the MS program in finance? The reason I suggest that is that some of your MS math (or even BS math) class credits might apply towards the MS program at your University, making it quicker than if you started at a new place.

A lot of real-world finance is computer model driven. I'm not sure what programming languages are used, but if you're interested in learning programming, you might want to find out what is used and focus on those.

[13cyberphoenix]

Thanks for the replies. Why do you guys suggest I get my MS in finance instead of, say, statistics? Is it much easier for Americans to get jobs in China, Hong Kong, and elsewhere in Asia for finance than for engineering, IT, or statistician jobs? I don't think my school has a MS in financial engineering program, but they do have a MS Statistics program.

[gato]

Why don't you start researching and applying for jobs in HK and Singapore? If your undergrad school is considered prestigious in Asia, you might already be able to find something with your undergrad degree, and even if not, the exercise would help you understand the job market out there (and would make you more knowledgeable than most posters on this board). Just give it a try.

[13cyberphoenix]

thanks again for the replies. I am currently on vacation in Taiwan and will visit Hong Kong in a few days. However, have run into a bit of a problem with my current program. To get an MS at my current program, I am required to spend at least 2 semesters working on a thesis. However, I have not joined a research group yet and it seems that I won't be able to join one this upcoming fall semester since the professors either have full research groups, are on sabbatical, or not answering my emails.

I've looked into transferring to the finance, CS, and stats program at my current school as well. My school doesn't have a financial engineering program, but they do offer a CS and stats program. I haven't contacted the CS program yet, but the Stats dept told me that I likely can't start until Spring 2013, which will leave me with nothing to do this fall and winter. If I transfer to either program, I would have to pay out-of-state tuition. Thus, I'm thinking about just starting over and applying to a place like Stanford or Hong Kong, but then I won't be able to start until Fall 2013, leaving me with nothing to do for a whole year

[dlee85]

Have you considered a distant learning course? I've been considering doing an MSc in Financial Management from the Edinburgh Business School. Start dates are flexible. The one thing that is putting me off is the prestige of the school. There isn't an application process - you just pay for the course and away you go. But it will allow me to study anywhere in the world (i.e. China), whilst being able to work and learn Mandarin at the same time. Getting the work experience and having an MSc from an unknown university could be better than having only an MSc from a prestigious one.

[13cyberphoenix]

I never considered it until you mentioned it. Sure its nice to study anywhere and start immediately instead of having to wait until Fall 2013, but if its an unknown school then I don't know if employers would respect it.