From Zero to China

[Harvey]

Hi guys!

I have been living and working in Japan doing IT management related work for the past 3 years or so, and am "fluent" in Japanese, as far as one can be for a foreigner anyway.

Anyway, some time in the next 3 years or so, I would like to make a move and try living in China for a few years while working.

I am casually studying Chinese now, but if my Japanese is a "9" on a scale of 1-10, my Chinese is a .03.

I wanted to get your opinion on the best way to make the switch.

- After 3 years quit job in Japan and study abroad in a Chinese Uni taking intensive Chinese classes for 1 or 2 years, then trying to get a job in China in my fields.

- After 3 years, do volunteer-ish work in China for 2 years, then enter grad school somewhere else while studying Chinese and getting a diff degree... unsure of for what purpose though.

- Try to transfer to china after 2 or 3 years with current job.

I dunno... how else I am I gonna get over there?

Also, I'm worried that if I live in China for 2 or 3 years, and someday decide to move back to Japan or the States or Europe or something, the time spent earning Yuan in China with the extreme exchange rate difference is going to make me ultra poor. Is that an issue for you guys?

Thanks for any and all advice!

[carlo]

Why don't you study Chinese in Japan? Do they have evening classes? If you're already fluent in Japanese.... you don't really need to study characters from scratch.

The way things are looking now with the exchange rate, you may end up making money. But that obviously depends on what you are going to do in China and how much you get paid.

[Harvey]

Actually I have started learning Chinese casually in Japan, but I my experience with languages in the past, until I really live there, I won't be able to master the language enough to make it useful in a work environment.

Of course, the more I can prepare the faster I can pick it up when I go over...

How realistic is it to go to China for work before you really have the language down? Is that absolutely crazy? In Tokyo it can be done, I imagine Shanghai would be similar? Maybe?

[Guest IVYtony]

suggestions:

I do think you can find a position/career in China even thoug you speak zero of Chinese, as long as your english qualifies you for a great position in a good company(where there are good English atmosphere). while working, I'm sure you can learn spoken Chinese from your peers/colleagues. Most of chinese people like communicating with foreigners, especially the English natives.

As for the characters, Japanese are very similar as Chinese, except some are quite different. I assume you have a good foundation of writing characters, then it will not be a problem for you to write Chinese.

Good luck!

[carlo]

Some companies in BJ and SH only use English internally, at *all* times.... even when employees are all local Chinese. I find this insane. Sometimes I even have to help a friend of mine edit stuff because her boss requires English-language reports from all employees without exception (despite the fact that they're all native Chinese speakers!). Somehow can't imagine this happening in France (or in Japan).

If you end up in one of these places, you might as well never learn Chinese.

[Harvey]

Somehow can't imagine this happening in France (or in Japan).

I've worked in both, and yeah, I can say that I could not see that ever happning!

Interesting though that I could probably get a job in my field without knowing the language. I would hate working in an entirely English environment though, because I'm sure that would stunt my Chiense growth... but if it is the only way I can really get over there then... what the heck huh?

Thanks for the info

[woliveri]

carlo, you mean personel at these type of companies can't speak Chinese at all? Even on breaks?

Harvey or Carlo, Can you hook a fellow up with IT position in China? What company are you with that has locations in both Japan and China? Or at least head me in the right direction.

I'm currently programming in California.

Thanks,

[Tsunku]

I think it depends a lot on your field. For IT, maybe knowledge of Chinese isn't needed as much as it would be in some other fields. Looking at job postings (outside of teaching) online, I see that many employers prefer candidates who can speak both English and Chinese. I suppose this would depend on the position, and to the extent to which you would be expected to interact with local Chinese. I would look around. I don't know too much about the IT field but I had a friend a couple of months back who was looking into doing IT work in China and it seemed there were possibilities out there.

You could always teach. Teaching requires no knowledge of Chinese. Most schools don't like teachers using it in the classroom, so knowing Chinese as an English teacher only gives you the slight advantage of being able to communicate with Chinese staff and parents more effectively. However, with teaching you won't make much money, probably not enough to take back home. Even if you're making a high salary by local standards, if you're only making a grand total of about $500 US a month, how effective is it really to save money anyhow? You will have a much higher salary working for a foreign company doing IT or whatnot than you would as an English teacher.

[carlo]

The company I mentioned (software development) has an English-only policy for all internal communications, both written (email, memos, etc) and oral (meetings etc). My friend's boss is a native Chinese but was educated in the States and now talks to everyone in English (hence she's what some people would call a 假洋鬼子). Many 外企 (foreign-invested enterprises) have a multilingual working environment, and fluent English is often a requirement for all industries - a necessity if you have expatriate and visiting staff from other international offices. But the example I gave is a bit extreme in that all staff and most clients are local.

I have never met any foreign programmers here, and with the number of new local IT graduates flooding the job market each year, I don't know how easy it is to get hired. I work in the financial industry though, so I might've missed something.

[Harvey]

Harvey or Carlo, Can you hook a fellow up with IT position in China? What company are you with that has locations in both Japan and China? Or at least head me in the right direction.

The company I work for is a giant multinational with businesses in various industries all over the world. I am working in the financial industry doing IT management type work.

You could always teach. Teaching requires no knowledge of Chinese. Most schools don't like teachers using it in the classroom, so knowing Chinese as an English teacher only gives you the slight advantage of being able to communicate with Chinese staff and parents more effectively. However, with teaching you won't make much money, probably not enough to take back home. Even if you're making a high salary by local standards, if you're only making a grand total of about $500 US a month, how effective is it really to save money anyhow? You will have a much higher salary working for a foreign company doing IT or whatnot than you would as an English teacher.

While salary isn't my main objective... I still want to stay away from teaching if possible. A lot of people in Japan come here to teach just because it's the easiest way they gt here and plan to make a switch to a field they are interested in later... but a lot of people get stuck. Kinda worried about that.

I guess I would be better off to try to make a switch within my current business and get to China that way...

Must... study... Chinese!