the English word for 義父

[Kenny同志]

This word is defined by Oxford Chinese-English Dictionary as ‘adoptive father’, which I don’t think is entirely right.

Although in some cases a 義父 can be at the same time one’s adoptive father, more often than not this is not the case. A 義父 seldom adopts the child (can be an adult child). His relationship with the child is usually officially formed after the performance of a ritual, after which he is supposedly morally bound to take care of or help the child when necessary.

The Dictionary also defines 養父 as ‘adoptive father’, which of course is correct. But 養父 and 義父 are two things that are rather different.

It’s worth mentioning that in law, 養父 is strictly one’s adoptive father; 義父 doesn’t bear any legal significance.

Do you think ‘nominal father’ is close to 義父? Or you can propose a better translation?

Thanks in advance for your help.

[scoff]

My dictionary also says foster-father which doesn't neccessarily imply a legal adoption. However, from your description it seems like godfather would work as well.

What's the difference between 義父 and 干爸?

[Kenny同志]

They're the same thing, but the former is formal, and the latter colloquial.

I am afraid "godfather" won't do as it's related to religion while “義父” isn't.

Anyway, thanks for your comment.

PS: should be 乾爸, also called 乾爹.

[Kenny同志]

Hey how about "sworn father"?

[scoff]

If that's the case then godfather might actually be a pretty good translation. It also implies that the godfather bears some responsibility towards the other person without a formal legal relationship.

IMHO, "nominal father" by itself doesn't imply very much. If I saw that I would be relying heavily on context to figure out what meaning the author was trying to convey other than that it wasn't the 'true' father.

edit: Sworm father sounds very formal (people don't usually go around swearing oaths), so if 義父 is a very formal term it might work.

[anonymoose]

From your description, I agree that "godfather" is the closest. It may have its origins in religion, but in reality, the role of the godfather is basically as you described. Otherwise, for a system that exists in Chinese culture though not western, I don't think you will be able to find a more accurate translation.

[scoff]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but is the difference between 干爸 and 乾爸 just a simp/trad difference? I ask because when I was trying to see if it was similar to 義父 I came across the following page.

http://baike.baidu.com/view/5246873.htm?fromTaglist

[Kenny同志]

I don't mean to hijack the thread but is the difference between 干爸 and 乾爸 just a simp/trad difference?

Yes. I corrected you because you used traditional Chinese at first and then switched to Simplifed.

Thank you two.

Images of the ritual : http://baike.baidu.com/view/806492.htm

http://www.chinajili...ent_1620464.htm

[Kenny同志]

Just checked the wiki entry of 'godfather', which led me to "godparent. After reading the quote below, I am sure I've found the word for 義父, i.e. godfather.

quoted from wiki:

Traditionally, godparents were informally responsible for ensuring the child's religious education was carried out, and for caring for the child should he/she be orphaned. Today, the word godparent might not have explicitly religious overtones. The modern view of a godparent tends to be an individual chosen by the parents to take an interest in the child's upbringing and personal development.^[1]

Thanks guys!

[Kenny同志]

林語堂 defined it as 'adopted father'. What do you think of this translation?

[skylee]

I like adopted father better. Godfather does not sound right. 謝遜 is 張無忌's godfather? I think it sounds funny.

[Lu]

It depends on the situation. If someone takes a grown person under his wing, especially when the 'adoptee's' parents are still alive, it doesn't make sense to speak of an adoptive father.

[skylee]

I googled "yitian tulong ji", haha , out of curiosity and boredom, and found this -> http://edu.ocac.gov....gfu/e/3-2-3.htm , which might serve as a reference.

As it is a gov.tw website, I will quote the relevant part in case it is blocked (I think the romanisation is based on Tongyong Pinyin) (my highlight) -

A precious sword Tulong Dao linked the three generations. Jhang Sanfong's disciple Yu Daiyen gained this sword first but was ambushed, and not only lost the sword to the religious sect Tianying Jiao but also his arms and legs. In order to catch the criminal, Yu's fellow disciple Jhang Cuishan went to the School of Shaolin. During this trip Jhang met a girl, Yin Susu, and later they came across Sie Syun, now the owner of the sword Tulong Dao, then they accompanied Sie to go back to Ice and Fire Island, bing huo dao, where Jhang married Yin who later gave birth to a boy name Jhang Wuji and Sie was regarded as the boy's adopted father. When they went back Wudang, Yin Susu and Jhang Cuishan both committed suicide after Yin was accused of causing the handicap of Yu Daiyan because she was daughter of the Master of Tianying Jiao they ambushed Yu Daiyan.

[Kenny同志]

Thanks for your feedback, Skylee and Lu.

@Lu

If someone takes a grown person under his wing, especially when the 'adoptee's' parents are still alive, it doesn't make sense to speak of an adoptive father.

I agree, but what do you think of "adopted father"?

Also I would appreciate it if any native speaker could comment here.

[skylee]

Ah native speakers are what you want. I am obviously not one (and sorry for having commented). I suspect that Lu is not either. Anyways.

[Kenny同志]

Skylee, I appreciate your opinions/comments/feedback on many of my posts, including this one.

The comments you gave here are very useful, but I think it's always good to hear what native speakers have to say about the translation.

PS:

I made it very clear that "Also I would appreciate it if any native speaker could comment here. I don't think it's that hard to grasp.

[Kenny同志]

To be honest, I think you are too sensitive, and have a strong tendency to misunderstand me. I am really tired of explaining myself every time you feel uncomfortable about what I say.

So I would really appreciate it if you could refrain from commenting on any of my future posts.

Thank you for your help over the past two years, but I am just tired of explaining myself.

Edit: Sorry Skylee. It was unfair of me to use "paranoid" to describe you.

[hbuchtel]

Hi Kenny, I think it depends on the intended audience and your goals for this translation - if it is more of a 'popular' article, meant to give the reader a quick and easy to digest impression of what this kind of relationship is about, then 'godfather' would be perfect. However, if it is more of an academic article, written for people who have some knowledge of or special interest in Chinese or Asian culture with the goal of giving an accurate picture of this relationship, its historical significance, its changing role in modern China (etc etc), then I would suggest a more literal translation of 义.

I don't have any good suggestions for such a translation, however, as I don't understand why this character is used in this context...

[Kenny同志]

Thanks for your comment, hbuchtel.

I have been collecting neologisms for some press and my definition would probably go into its dictionary. Though it may be reviewed and edited by the editor before being published, undoubtedly he will be influenced by my original. That's why I have been so careful about giving a definition.

Since now I know 'godfather' is pretty close to 義父, the other question left is whether 'adopted father' could make a passable translation. Could you share your view here?

[abcdefg]

Since now I know 'godfather' is pretty close to 義父, the other question left is whether 'adopted father' could make a passable translation. Could you share your view here?

"Adoptive father" would sound more natural, since "adopted father" implies the child adopted this new father instead of the other way around.

Second point (I'm a native English speaker) is that "godfather" often carries a "gangland/criminal" connotation. Whether it should or not is another matter.

In reading through this thread, I don't see anyone proposing "stepfather." Would that be inappropriate in the context with which you are dealing? It is more often used when a man marries a woman who already has a child. He becomes the stepfather of that child. Adoptive father more often refers to a man who takes in an orphan and raises that orphan like he or she were a natural born child.