Tourism, 16 nights in China, how much money?

[Igor Antunov]

I hope they use it wisely.

[jbradfor]

Essentially any card with a Visa/Mastercard symbol can be used at most ATMs in Beijing and Shanghai, with daily limits between 2000-5000 RMB depending on the bank and particular ATM, as well as your home bank.

If you withdraw via Visa/Mastercard systems, you are likely taking a cash advance, and will be hit by hefty fees and low daily limits. What you want is to use the ATM systems, the biggest being "plus" and "cirrus", with tons of others (e.g. "instant cash"). Look at the back of your ATM card.

Trust me, I know it works. In the last 4 years, I've done this in China, Hong Kong, Japan, Korea, Singapore, Israel, UK, Czech Republic, Croatia, and Germany.

Keep in mind, I will have the cash spread out among two people in money belts, and deep within four individual pieces of luggage, among other secret compartments sown into my clothes.

I think you are overestimating your own cleverness and underestimating that of thieves. Remember, they do this for a living, you don't (I assume.....). But, I see you've made up your mind, so I realize I'm wasting my breath.

In any case, have a good trip!

[icebear]

If you withdraw via Visa/Mastercard systems, you are likely taking a cash advance, and will be hit by hefty fees and low daily limits. What you want is to use the ATM systems, the biggest being "plus" and "cirrus", with tons of others (e.g. "instance cash"). Look at the back of your ATM card.

Thanks for clarifying. All my ATM cards have both a credit card network (Visa/Mastercard) and the Plus system, so I guess I'm using the Plus one and getting the decent fees with (more or less the same fee for using an off network ATM in the US).

[jbradfor]

All my ATM cards have both a credit card network (Visa/Mastercard) and the Plus system

Exactly. That seems pretty common, at least in the USA, a combined debit card / ATM card. Can't speak for Spain.

Which brings up the question, for a combined card, if you stick it into a given machine, how do you know what system you are using? I'm not exactly sure, TBH, but I have three suggestions.

• My wife gets an ATM-only card. I don't do this, as I like having the ATM card as a back-up credit (well, debit) card.
  
• I try to use different PINs for the ATM vs the cash advance. At least I think I do.
  
• They usually ask from which account you want to withdraw the funds. Ensure you select "checking" or "savings".
  

[jkhsu]

So All up 15,000 should about do it for 16 days eh?

I intend to spend money.

Actually, this is not a bad idea. Your initial post seemed like you wanted to go frugal but Beijing and Shanghai are actually great places to spend money and live it up as well. In addition to touristy sites, I suggest doing some research on restaurants and entertainment options. Make some friends with expats and locals who can take you around to cool hangouts and venues outside of the typical tourist map.

[msittig]

Well OK then.

[Igor Antunov]

I will certainly try to be sociable with the locals. It would be somewhat bland if one kept to ones self. It's just the two of us and we need some social stimulation. The hostel we are staying at in Beijing (hutong, 9 dragons house-xinmao hostel) is cheap and filled with chinese from other parts of the country. It's dirty and smelly but it's secure and in a convenient location. The staff are rather passive, like automatons, but they always respond if you engage with them.

We will see the grand sights, hike on the more obscure sections of the great wall, eat at some low end places (theres an awesome little reastaurant a short walk away from the hostel near the subway station), some high end places, visit some shifty clubs, some fancy clubs, etc.

The last thing I want to be is a typical tourist with a camera glued to my hands, relying on guides and itineraries and running away from the locals and public transportation. I find the subway in Beijing excellent and super cheap.

Shanghai is a little more intimidating but likewise we are staying in the city central youth hostel (it's more like a hotel actually). It's close to a subway station and supermarket. Beyond that I don't know anything more about shanghai. Sadly the hostel is filled with foreigners so much less chance of getting to know locals in shanghai. I also find cantonese intimidating. BUt luckily eveyrbody seems to speak mandarin as well. Strangely almost nobody speaks english there in the shanghai hostel, and the most helpful fellow is a dwarfish chap who manages the laundry service in a most excellent manner.

French (grumpy), Dutch (serial complainers) and Americans (won't stop talking) are not my cup of tea, quite annoying in fact, we get enough of them here in Australia and they are always loud and obnoxious and exceedinly needy. For some reason they are the most likely nationalities to run into when travelling besides asians.

British are quite well cultured and capable though, but sadly too conventional, always over-relying on their itineraries and maps. But still, they are flexible and rarely lose their temper. Russians and eastern europeans in particular are too careless and way too alcoholic (i know, I'm one of them) and make for volatile company. Africans seems withdrawn and keep to themselves.

Not to paint any stereotypes, but this is just based on my round' the world travels. Different strokes for different folks.

One question. Why do Chinese stare at me when I am putting on deoderant in public? Is it considered taboo to spray yourself/roll on some anti-perspirant in public? It's not like I take my shirt off to do it. Weird.

I will make sure to bring copious cans of the stuff, it will be summer and I sweat like some sort of busted pipe. Plus it costs a small fortune in China for some reason.

[skylee]

I find the subway in Beijing excellent and super cheap.

Not sure if it is excellent (compared with systems in other cities if probably is not). Beijing is such a big city that there still seems to be room for expansion of its subway system.

Why did you have to comment on "French, Dutch and Americans"? And "Russians and eastern europeans" too? With one post you managed to criticise people of 1/4 (say) of the world. Don't you know that there are many members of these nationalities on these forums?

[Igor Antunov]

It was not intended to criticise. I made clear these are my personal views based on personal experience, and I made clear these views are not meant to stereotype. I can't judge entire countries based on a handful of tourists I had to put up with. I even criticised my own region of origin.

It's just observations, and some of the best times I've ever had abroad was with these very same people. Their positives far outweigh their negatives. 'Not my cup of tea' is a figure of speech, derived from british english, and is meant in a tongue in check manner.

Which reminds me, germans are way too serious and can't seem to recognize light hearted criticism. And stay away from middle aged australian men travelling alone. Almost always crazy.

I am obviously joking.

[abcdefg]

One question. Why do Chinese stare at me when I am putting on deoderant in public?

Two answers: 1. Deodorant is not common here, and 2. Some things are socially acceptable and other things are not. Differs place to place. As a world traveler, I'm surprised you don't already know that.

[jbradfor]

I also find cantonese intimidating. BUt luckily eveyrbody seems to speak mandarin as well.

??? Except for the occasional tourist from Hong Kong (hi skylee!), people in Shanghai don't speak Cantonese. They mostly speak Mandarin, with some speaking Shanghai-ese as well. I'm surprised you don't already know that as well.

French (grumpy), Dutch (serial complainers) and Americans (won't stop talking) are not my cup of tea, quite annoying in fact, we get enough of them here in Australia and they are always loud and obnoxious and exceedinly needy.

That's pretty hilarious coming from an Australian....

Why do Chinese stare at me when I am putting on deoderant in public?

Ewwww. If I saw someone do that here in the states, I'd think they were very lower-class. But I guess out in the outback....

[imron]

That's pretty hilarious coming from an Australian....

*ahem*

Russians and eastern europeans in particular are too careless and way too alcoholic (i know, I'm one of them)

[Igor Antunov]

Ewwww. If I saw someone do that here in the states, I'd think they were very lower-class. But I guess out in the outback....

Lower class people tend to stink, I go out of my way to protect your nose even in open public spaces. That's upper class consideration right there.

And few westerners really know the meaning of true summer + humidity. I suspect Shanghai summer is similar to Australia with it's horrible moisture. I was in Europe once, it reached 38 degrees celcius, everybody was complaining about the oppressive heat, I was frolicking in a jacket and it felt like 22 degrees in the shade.

Europeans and Americans have no idea what a hot day actually means. In Australia a hot day kills you if you are exposed.

I've just done some research and it seems that Asians have fewer sweat glands and thus perspire less than us hairy blonde north-eastern europeans. Would account for the deoderant situation in the country.

[skylee]

And few westerners really know the meaning of true summer + humidity. I suspect Shanghai summer is similar to Australia with it's horrible moisture.

In Hong Kong it is very humid in summer (and also in spring, and sometimes in winter, too).

I was in Sydney and Melbourne during Christmas some years ago. It was like 40 degrees and it was hard to breathe outdoors. But my impression is that it was very dry, hot and dry, not humid. Why? Do I remember it wrong, or it is dry in those parts during Christmas?

[imron]

Melbourne heat is usually pretty dry.

Also, I'm not sure where in Australia Igor lives, but for reference, most people here would consider 38 degrees celcius to be pretty damn hot and you won't find too many people frolicking around in jackets at that temperature.

[Igor Antunov]

I was referring to European temperatures. I live in Sydney. It is very humid hear for most of the year, especially in summer when it storms and rains every afternoon. 95% humidity, 40 degrees celcius? Enough to kill.

[imron]

I was referring to European temperatures.

I was in Europe once, it reached 38 degrees celcius, everybody was complaining about the oppressive heat

Out of curiosity, what's the difference between 38 degrees celcius in Europe vs 38 degrees celcius in Australia?

Also for reference, statistics from the Australian Bureau of Meterology show that in any given year, for both Melbourne and Sydney, you can more or less count on one hand the number of days in a year over 35 degrees. 38 degrees is pretty unusual here too and you get plenty of people complaining about the oppressive heat when it happens.

[Geiko]

Lower class people tend to stink, I go out of my way to protect your nose even in open public spaces. That's upper class consideration right there.

I think in many places personal hygiene is something that you must do... in private. I can't imagine myself washing my teeth in the middle of the street, or putting on deodorant. But it's good to know that if I ever go to Australia, I'll have to do that if I want to be considered "upper class"...

By the way, I'm from Spain, and we do know what hot days are like. Here people can also die because of the heat, especially old people and young children.

[anonymoose]

We will see the grand sights, hike on the more obscure sections of the great wall, eat at some low end places (theres an awesome little reastaurant a short walk away from the hostel near the subway station), some high end places, visit some shifty clubs, some fancy clubs, etc.

The last thing I want to be is a typical tourist

So where does the not being a typical tourist come in?

[anonymoose]

I can't imagine myself washing my teeth in the middle of the street

Brushing one's teeth and even washing one's hair in the middle of the street is not uncommon in China. Maybe you won't see it much in Shanghai, but go to poorer places and it's quite common.