Violence against foreigners in Beijing?

[carlo]

Just saw this. I don’t get out much, and am in HK half of the year anyway. Is there a gang in Sanlitun picking on furriners? Has anybody personally come across any of this? I used to complain about traffic....

[malanting]

Are you talking about people beating a British national up because he sexually harassed a Chinese girl in public?

[malanting]

Sorry, didn't see the link. I've never heard of the story in the link. Maybe it's unrelated to the girl being a foreigner.

[count_zero]

The US Embassy sometimes issues warnings about bars in Sanlitun where Chinese regularly gang-beat foreigners. Latte, School Bar etc.

It's hard to know how many Chinese gangs there are who go to Sanlitun to beat foreigners because they are never arrested for doing it!

[carlo]

I'm referring to the comments to that article especially. They make it sound as if getting assaulted for no reason is a common occurrence, especially for lone females. As if walking while foreign is like going around with a sign saying "beat me up". I've never heard these stories from people I know, but then I haven't been to Sanlitun in years.

[malanting]

There are always some areas unsafe for lone females, especially at nights. I live in Shanghai and don't know if 三里屯 is considered one of them. But I don't think she got assaulted just because she was a foreigner. A Chinese girl would have easily fallen prey to these thugs as well. Similar incidents occurred in Shanghai too. Once a man used a hammer to attack females walking alone at night. About a dozen were injured in several weeks. The police caught him at last. I think things like this happen around the world every day. China is not 100% safe, but no more dangerous than America.

[imron]

It's worth noting that going by the name and nationality given in the original article, the woman attacked was almost certain to be Chinese-American, and therefore didn't necessarily look foreign to the original attackers. That doesn't diminish in any way the severity of that particular case, but it sounds to me more like the dangerous thing was to be a woman walking home alone at 3am in a notorious bar strip rather than being a foreigner.

Regarding other acts of violence mentioned in the comments, one of them links to a video of an attack - but the video is one foreigner beating up another foreigner. So the violence is not necessarily roving Chinese gangs looking to beat up on people, but also drunk foreigners beating up other drunk foreigners.

Anyway, I'm not saying attacks against foreigners by Chinese don't exist, or that there isn't an outpouring of xenophobic sentiment caused in part by certain recent videos making the rounds on the Chinese Internet, just that there may also be other factors at play.

[carlo]

Yes, it may simply be that the Sanlitun area is getting out of control. As these things don't get reported much, it's hard to know for sure. Some comments to that article mention people being attacked randomly, for no apparent reason other than being foreign. Although I suppose you can never be *really* certain: is this guy punching me because I'm foreign, or because he had a bad day at work? Still, has anyone here personally come across such incidents?

[malanting]

If anything, foreigners are welcomed in China. People become more friendly with them. Criminals are criminals and there's simply no way they can behave normally.

[carlo]

@malanting: Thanks. This being an English language thread about foreigners, I guess the usual disclaimers are due: yes, I believe that people may get drunk and resort to violence everywhere regardless of culture, ethnic origin, sex, religious beliefs and marital status. Yes, I believe that the 邻居大妈 who once called me a 老外 doesn’t want to kill me.

Still, I guess it’s hard for you (or me) to know a lot about these things if you are not a visible minority, are not in Beijing and do not regularly frquent these places.

[malanting]

I've been to Beijing several times and never noticed anything different (of course, that doesn't mean anything). A foreigner in Beijing won't be in danger any more than a Chinese in the US. I've also heard of stories on the Internet about how Chinese find themselves in danger in New York. But somehow I just feel it's the exception rather than the rule. If some areas are considered dangerous for foreigners and people would beat them up, those places aren't safe for native Chinese either.

[gato]

Some of the comments to that post are a bit hard to believe. Particularly the person claiming that two of her friends needed facial surgery abroad after being attacked and two other friends were left for dead in a park. Is that four friends total? The same person also wrote "You hear countless accounts of Chinese smashing beer bottles and whacking foreigners, girls and guys." If so, those stories haven't yet been reported by chinese-forumers.

[abcdefg]

Still, has anyone here personally come across such incidents?

Here in Kunming there are sometimes late night fights in the bar district (Kundu) between truculent tipsy foreigners and truculent tipsy locals. I don't go there, so I've never been involved.

The accounts I hear are always told from only one point of view, so I'm never really sure as to the true cause. Could just be a case of Billy Bob Foreigner trying to dance with Zhang Dong's sweetheart and not graciously taking no for an answer.

[icebear]

Could just be a case of Billy Bob Foreigner trying to dance with Zhang Dong's sweetheart and not graciously taking no for an answer.

I've seen this happen a dozen or so times in Sanlitun over the years, including twice to friends. One should keep in mind that these type of bar streets tend to attract irresponsible drink, actions, and occasionally the accompanying senseless violence. I do think there are times when Chinese go to Sanlitun specifically to pick a fight, but it seems to me the fights are usually started with someone that is already obnoxiously drunk.

As anywhere, don't over drink and keep aware of your actions and surroundings.

[roddy]

Sanlitun in the summer is hot, crowded, noisy and full of drunk people, many of them in large groups, many of them away from home and off cultural leashes, taking advantage of cheap drink promotions in poorly run bars with untrained bouncers, from a range of ethnic and cultural backgrounds, chatting up girls in a country where - recent events or no recent events - stereotypes of foreigners are not always favourable. It's basically a petri dish for ruckus. If you wanted to carry out a study on how fights start, that's the kind of situation you'd engineer. It's an English market town on a summer Friday writ large.

Personally you could line the streets with UN peacekeepers and have everyone sing 'Give Peace a Chance', I wouldn't go to Sanlitun because it's too busy and full of touts. I'm sure it's possible to have a perfectly charming evening of quiet drinking and sophisticated conversation there. But if you are going, keep your threat radar on, because even if you aren't going to start a fight, there are plenty of idiots around who'll happily start one for you.

The 'Sanlitun violence' thing comes up every summer in one form or another. I don't think there's any kind of beat-up-a-foreigner gang going around, but every year there are more foreigners in Beijing, more Chinese people with the money and inclination to drink, and so more chance of friction. If you want to blame anyone, it's the folk who allow the idea of 'bar streets' to continue. Shut down three of every four bars on Sanlitun, then open them up again scattered around the city. Job done.

[Outofin]

I always appreciate roddy's no-nonsense attitude. He's definitely the second smartest guy on this forum.

[Lu]

I've heard stories of foreigners being beaten up, according to the stories some bars/alleys are notorious for having Chinese guys in them that want to beat up foreigners. Some possible causes have already been mentioned.

My computer won't open the article at the moment, but I'm more surprised that a woman was beaten up. Perhaps naive, but I always assumed that the main danger for men late at night is being beaten up and the main danger for women being assaulted/raped, with neither sex running the risks of the opposite sex, usually.

[carlo]

Thanks to all who replied. I knew I can always count on you guys and gals for reliable information.

[imron]

He's definitely the second smartest guy on this forum.

After me?

[jbradfor]

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