URGENT: 2:30 police appointment for teaching English on an F-Visa. What to do

[zhouhaochen]

A former student of ours just called and asked me for help. He finished his course with us and is now on an F-Visa, teaching English here. His school got a call from the police yesterday asking if he works there and they denied it. Then he got a call and was told to go to the Lama Temple Public Security Bureau. He called me for advice. I told him what I think should be said, but we are a Chinese language school and do not organise English teaching, therefore I have not been in a situation like this before. Also everything is different at the moment due to the 100 day crackdown I assume. Anyone has been called in by the police recently for working on an F-Visa? What happened? Any advice?

He has to be there in two hours, so not sure if anyone sees this in time, but I thought I try.

Cant wait for that stupid 100 day visa crackdown to finish! Stupid!

[外国赤佬]

Looks like somebody is going home.

[abcdefg]

Tough situation.

[zhouhaochen]

thanks for the encouragement everyone. Any ideas though?

It is not us organising it, but he studied with us and I want to help him out, just dont know how.

[skylee]

Why is it stupid? It doesn't sound stupid to me.

[imron]

Unfortunately, none other than to remain polite.

One thing though, I'm not sure whether the police are just on a fishing expedition or if they have evidence, but if it's only the former, incriminating oneself and not incriminating oneself might be the difference between going and staying.

[steveh]

What was the resulting action?

[zhouhaochen]

was called in, said he didnt know the school, the police said in that case they probably made a mistake and sent him home. Not sure if thats it, but for the moment it looks good

[anonymoose]

So didn't they ask what he's doing on an F-visa then? Or is that question too obvious?

[roddy]

Cant wait for that stupid 100 day visa crackdown to finish! Stupid!

Good luck with that. These screws have been tightening for years. I wouldn't look at this as a temporary inconvenience, I'd see it as a vision of the future. Anyone with life plans or a business model based around anything but the strictest interpretation of visa rules would be well-advised to have alternative arrangements in mind. Hopefully you won't need them.

Edit: And another thing.

This 100 day crackdown thing is actually stupid. It's a direct response to the outrage over that foreign-man-assaults-Chinese-girl story a few weeks back, despite the fact that a) there's no indication he was on any kind of dodgy visa, or breaching the rules of a legitimate one*; b) if you're going to enforce laws, it's best not to tell the criminals how long you'll be doing it for; and c) if the police genuinely wanted to roll up the whole dodgy visa thing they could do it in five minutes by leafing through a few copies of the expat mags and raiding the visa agents, going through their records and doing some well-publicised arrests and repatriations.

It'll stop being stupid when it stops being a crackdown and becomes regular, predictable law enforcement. Until then, it's about making the police look good.

*Well, beyond the 'obey the law' one.

[just_me]

I completely agree with roddy - this whole this is mismanaged and I talked to a few Chinese journalists who have mentioned that this whole story has nothing to do with that British guy, and that it was not more than an excuse. Anyway, in terms of immigration policies it is normal for a country to demand immigrants or expats to have working visas if they are working.

It is quite disturbing the check-ups they are doing, and I was told by the owner of modernista (a bar in the gulou area), who have been checked by the police two weeks ago, that the dongcheng district police chief who came to their bar told her that they are not in trouble and they are mostly looking for arabs and blacks - and that is even more disturbing (though i must admit quite similar to some developed countries).

One of my employees works on an F visa that was issued by our company, we couldn't yet issue a working visa for him due to limitation on capital (I can only hire a certain amount of foreigners). I had to talk to the police today about the issue since he was extending his visa, and there was no problem since we mentioned that he is not getting a salary in China but the company is covering his expenses. So, for future cases - hope it helps.

Cheers.

Ilya.

I went to Modernista today (a bar near gulou) that was checked

[zhouhaochen]

@annonymouse: he said studying Chinese (which he did at the beginning with us) and then later doing research for a paper he had to write at home. So far it worked, all is good.

@roddy: yes. Stupid. Stupid. Stupid. Screws tighten, but also become more loose sometimes. F-visas issued in some European countries and the USA during the last few months suddenly are valid for a longer period of time than they were in February and are possible with a company invitation (last year they wanted a letter by the local government beforehand). Also last year during autumn you could not convert an L visa into an F Visa. December came and suddenly you could again. Now you cannot. Who knows?

Any predictable, commonly enforced and reliable policy would be better than what we have at the moment - even if it was stricter. It is impossible to plan with this. I sometimes think the guys from the 出入管理处 just go for baijiu every Friday at lunch and whoever drinks the most can make up a new rule.

And of course getting rid of some obviously useless rules (why does someone have to go to HK to apply for a Z-visa. Anyone can do it, so it has no benefit in limiting fraudulent visas and only adds hassle). I could go on about this for another few pages, but will spare everyone the boredom.

That said, so far we have always been able to help our students with visa advice and nobody ever had to go home so far (knock on wood - that guy was the closest call so far, but he didnt actually study with us anymore). Also I just got my Z visa renewed for another year.

And the weather is great today. So not all bad!

[liuzhou]

Also I just got my Z visa renewed for another year.

Impossible. Do you mean you got your residence permit renewed? Your Z-visa expired the moment you residence permit was issued.

[skylee]

And of course getting rid of some obviously useless rules (why does someone have to go to HK to apply for a Z-visa. Anyone can do it, so it has no benefit in limiting fraudulent visas and only adds hassle).

Could you explain some more about this? Why must people apply for Z visa in HK? Can't they apply for it in China or in their home countries? If anyone can go to HK to apply for a Z-visa, then in theory there should be no need for fraudulent visas (because anyone can get a Z visa from HK), then why are there no benefits in reducing fraudulent visas? I don't need a visa to go to / work in Mainland China so I don't understand these. Would appreciate some more info on this.

[外国赤佬]

Basically, one needs to leave China in order to apply for Z visa, but everyone simply goes to HK to cross the border (you're technically leaving China/PRC), so...

[liuzhou]

A Z-visa is an ENTRY visa. It allows an alien to ENTER China to take up pre-arranged employment. The idea that these should be issued within mainland China is ridiculous. If you are already in China, why do you need a visa to ENTER! It is perfectly logical that Z-visas can only be issued outside mainland China.

I am rather astonished that someone who seems to be setting themselves up as an authority on Chinese visas and is offering advice to others, doesn't seem to even understand his own documentation.

Chinese visa regulations are crystal clear. Enforcement may be patchy but the rules are clear. You can't work legally on a visa which doesn't allow you to work! Same as any other country!

The OP's idea that a visa crackdown is "stupid" just seems to mean that it doesn't suit him or his friends.

I am constantly amused by the people who are disgusted that China doesn't observe its own laws on human rights and freedom of speech or religion, (something worth getting worked up about) or traffic laws or whatever but then moan and moan when China does apply their own laws and insist that they have valid legal visas.

[roddy]

On the balance of probabilities, Liuzhou, do you think he's ignorant of the distinction, or do you think he's typing quickly and being a little inaccurate with terminology? It's not as if he's trying to explain the intricacies of Chinese visa (oh, sorry, visa and residence permit) regulations, he's just making passing reference.