Chinese dating customs

[ansileran]

Hi !

I know the topic of Chinese dating customs has already been discussed several times and if I missed any topic, I'll be glad if you point me toward it.

A Chinese guy asked me out yesterday. I like him well enough (actually thought about maybe dating him sometime in the future last time we met), great. There are a few things that I found strange though :

- He asked me while chatting on the internet as he is currently in Shanghai (I live in France, it's where we met) : apparently he was too afraid to ask me directly

- This was the first time we talked in about three months : apparently he had visa issues and had to go back to China so his French mobile was disconected but this is solved and he is coming back this weekend

- We only saw each other 3 times (and exchanged a few e-mails) : once at a pub, once he took me to dinner and the third time we went to watch a movie (which I managed to pay for, after a long discussion ^^)

Now, if a French guy acted this way, I would never go out with him and I would assume he is looking for a fling. I know I'm backward and up-tight (according to my french friends), but it seems to me we don't know each other well enough to start dating yet. Or does "dating" have a different meaning in China ? More like "courting" ? I'll talk to him about it (he is really interested in French culture so he'll probably want to know anyway) but if I could avoid a cultural blunder on the first date, it would be nice.

I know this is vague and calling for stereotypes. What is true for one person isn't true for everyone else. But, in your personal experience,

• would this behavior be considered normal for someone wanting a real relationship (not a fling) ?
  
• what does "dating" entail, at the beginning of a relationship, (to your knowledge/experience) in China ?
  
• things that have a special meaning (meeting the friends/family, presents or actions...) ?
  

Thank you very much !

[Lu]

It really depends. Some Chinese guys basically date with intent to marry, but some others are expecting sex asap. No telling what your guy expects, how his personality influences this, what he expects in dating a non-Chinese, Western woman as opposed to possible previous dating Chinese women, how his outlook is changing from being exposed to a different culture, etc etc. What exactly his behaviour means is hard to tell. If I were you I'd probably endlessly speculate, but being on the outside it's easier to keep cool :-) Best just take his invitation at face value: he'd like to spend time with you. As you'd like to spend time with him, so far your goals are the same.

My advice would be to take it slow. You say you're not interested in something fast short-term, so that would suit you. If he just wants a fling, you'll find out soon enough and the worst that would have happened is that you wasted some time.

If you have serious intentions with this guy, you need to be able to talk to him about the cultural differences, because that will continue to come up. So if you're not sure what he means by what he said or did, ask, and if you don't know what he expects or how you can convey how you feel, ask.

Meeting the parents will be pretty far in the future, presumably. Traditionally this is a very serious occasion, if he introduces you to his parents he has very serious intentions. But again, this can depend on the man and the circumstances in question. Best to discuss your and his expectations when that time comes, no need to worry about that yet.

I've found that a good way to show you care is feeding him. If you can cook, great; if not, put food on his plate when eating out, have him try what you're having, etc.

Last but not least, good luck and have fun!

[ansileran]

Thanks Lu !

Yes, it really depends, especially since he is from Wenzhou, studied in Beijing and lived in France for 3 years... I just wanted to make sure this type of start doesn't automatically means he wants a fling... The rest, we can probably talk about along the way (like, why would he want to date me when Chinese girls are so cute ^^).

I knew about the "meeting the family" thing, which is why I cited it, as it wouldn't mean as much in France :

- telling my parents that I have a boyfriend and telling them about him will probably happen very soon, like next time I talk to them, but it wouldn't mean anything (except reassuring them that their "little girl" is "normal")

- meeting my parents : if it is more than a fling, definitely sooner than in China, but again, only when he is comfortable with it.

- meeting the rest of the family : if the occasion present itself (like a birthday), it would be normal and have no other meaning than saying that we are together at the moment...

Cooking works for any guy as far as I can tell, if you can cook at least. I'm just afraid that my cooking will not be to his taste as he likes to eat heavily flavoured food... We had this discussion at the restaurant when he asked me whether I could eat spicy food or not ^^. But I didn't know about putting food on his plate... Does this have a special meaning ? Like something you would only do with your boyfriend or someone you intend to date ?

I'm lucky that we don't have a language problem, it will make talking easier : we both speak English fluently, his French is very good too, and I'm getting good at expressing my feelings or thoughts in Chinese (watching sappy Taiwanese drama and listening to love songs does pay sometimes ^^)... Just cultural "unkowns" : he expected to pay for everything when we were together before and we had a long discussion about this, or wanting to carry my bag (we found a middle groud there : I kept my hand bag and he carried my shopping bag) and so on...

The only thing I'm truly afraid of, is that something will happen that will have a different meaning for each of us but that will seem so evident that we won't suspect it might not mean the same thing to the other... And as such, we may not even think to talk about it...

[Demonic_Duck]

Now, if a French guy acted this way, I would never go out with him and I would assume he is looking for a fling. I know I'm backward and up-tight (according to my french friends), but it seems to me we don't know each other well enough to start dating yet.

I don't see anything particularly shady in this behaviour, even from my western perspective (I'm English). To my mind, "dating" means "going on dates" - no more, no less. Typically, it's the first stage of any relationship (with the exception of arranged marriages), however long- or short-term it is intended to be. In fact, if two heterosexual people of opposite sex "hang out as friends" together, I would typically call that "dating" unless there is some specific indication that one or both of them isn't interested in the other one, or they have already been friends (and no more) for a long time.

[jbradfor]

Or does "dating" have a different meaning in China ?

I think "dating", in the sense of "going out on a date", has a different meaning in English than you think it does. Else how would you explain a "blind date"?

There is another meaning of "dating", as in "we are dating", that does imply something more serious. It's what using to be called "going steady".

EDIT: opps, what DD said.

[ansileran]

Ok, so the problem would be that "dating" has an entire meaning to most French people and entails something much more serious than going to place together. Think American series... Dating means stuff like kissing and all. Hanging out with a guy wouldn't be called "dating" here, it would just be "hanging out"... Until people are ready to move to something a bit more serious, no one would call dating... Going on a date in the way you say it simply wouldn't be considered a date...

Guess I was right to ask if dating meant something different since it doesn't even mean the same thing to Americans... By the way, I have never heard of "blind dates" in France, however you may translate it... Though it might be very similar to what we call "afterworks" : gathering of workers looking for someone to meet and eventually date, or simply someone to hook up with...

[jbradfor]

I have never heard of "blind dates" in France, however you may translate it...

Basically it means going on a date with someone you've never met before. So it would be set-up by, say, friends, coworkers, or, god-forbid, parents.

[ansileran]

Yes I know what a blind date is, just that we don't do it (not that I'm aware of anyway). I just didn't know it existed in the US... I only saw it in Asian movies / dramas...

[jbradfor]

It's still exists, and it's more popular that ever here. It's just changed into "Speed Dating". Not sure if this trend has jumped across the pond yet....

[ansileran]

We do speed dating here but it might not be the same thing... We actually use the English word for it. It's usually on the phone or on the web and the goal is to get a girl friend or a boy friend right away. It only leads to fling most of the time...

[Demonic_Duck]

Ok, so the problem would be that "dating" has an entire meaning to most French people and entails something much more serious than going to place together. Think American series... Dating means stuff like kissing and all. Hanging out with a guy wouldn't be called "dating" here, it would just be "hanging out"...

To me, dating doesn't necessarily entail kissing (or anything else sexual). If I go on a date with a girl, I don't assume that things will go further, although I assume that it's at least within the realms of possibility. As you've already said you're interested in this guy, I'm assuming that it is within the realms of possibility, depending on how the date goes, so what's the problem? If it goes badly and he misreads your signals, just tell him to back off.

I'd also add that him taking you out to dinner and to a movie both sound like dates to me, and if he managed to resist trying to force himself on you then, I'm sure he will this time too.

[ansileran]

I'm perfectly fine with "going on a date" as described here. It's just that if you look for the French translation of "going on a date with sb", you'll probably end up with "sortir avec qn" (what that guy asked me) and in France, that would entail wanting to kiss (maybe even wanting sex, for some guys) on that date. Which isn't on the realms of possibility for now (maybe when we have known each other longer). A more accurate translation might be "asking sb to become your girlfriend/boyfriend" perhaps ?

I asked a Chinese friend tonight who told me that "the poor guy probably felt that [i wasn't interested in him as those three outings were what he thought was the proper way to signal a foreigner you want more than friendship"...

Guess we are going to have an interesting conversation soon enough...

[WestTexas]

once at a pub, once he took me to dinner and the third time we went to watch a movie (which I managed to pay for, after a long discussion ^^)

How's this not dating? Sounds like you have been on two or three dates already. Honestly if a woman went to dinner and a movie with me, on two different occasions, I would assume she was interested in me sexually. This is probably what the Chinese man thinks. Most women I know won't go do something with a guy one on one unless they are interested in him, or unless he is a very good friend they have known for a long time. Sorry, but I think you sent the wrong message.

[Demonic_Duck]

How's this not dating? Sounds like you have been on two or three dates already. Honestly if a woman went to dinner and a movie with me, on two different occasions, I would assume she was interested in me sexually. This is probably what the Chinese man thinks. Most women I know won't go do something with a guy one on one unless they are interested in him, or unless he is a very good friend they have known for a long time. Sorry, but I think you sent the wrong message.

I like him well enough (actually thought about maybe dating him sometime in the future last time we met).

How is it the wrong message if she's interested?

[WestTexas]

How is it the wrong message if she's interested?

yeah, you're right. Honestly I'm not sure what she's complaining about, it seems like she went on several dates with the guy and is interested in him but for some reason feels weirded out by him wanting to 'date' her.

[ansileran]

@Texas : seems to me like you are incredibly narrow minded and absolutely not willing to understand hat things might have different meanings in different countries.

The reason we met at first was actually for a language exchange, he needed help with French, and I need help with Chinese, so what's wrong with that ? I have been helping foreigners, guys and girls, with French for a long time. A pub is a convenient public place for this. And this type of language exchange is always one on one, with no other meaning.

As for him taking me to dinner, the only thing that surprised me was that he wanted to pay (language exchange on the evening, both end up pretty hungry => we go to dinner) but since apparently Chinese girl expect guys to pay for everything (at least those I met) even on friendly outings, I didn't pay attention to it.

Movies have absolutely no meaning here. On the contrary. Unless the girl is already your girlfriend and you want to make out on the back row of the theater.

By the way, do girls go out (as friends) with guys on public places only in France ? Most of my friends are guys (downside or advantage of having studied computer science and mathematics). While I would never have gone alone to their appartment if not interested in that way, meeting one on one was quite common, if only one of them was available at the time... We seem to be much more comfortable with the other gender than you are...

Beside, I think you never read my replies (or perhaps they are not clear enough, maybe my English is poorer than I thought) : I'm not weirded out by him wanted to "date" me in the sense given here. If you call going to the movies (and nothing happens at all) a date, then yes, I'm perfectly fine dating him. Something more is also in the realms of possibilities when we have known each other longer.

I'm not looking for a fling however, neither am I a whore. As I said, the words he used in French (which are a common translation of "going on a date"), have an entire different meaning here. Would you be ready to jump into a guy's bed or have him touch you and kiss you after meeting only trice ? (probably not since you seem to be a guy and het) I'm a conservative kind of girl when it comes to relationship, so no. I know girls that do, but they are looking for flings and easy sex. As are most French guys who would ask that.

A I said, different culture, different meaning, glad this is clarified...

PS: it's funny how you think that a woman apparently can't enjoy your company unless she wants to have sex with you...

PPS : Did I sound like I am complaining ? Sorry, wasn't my intention, I'm actually very happy that he wants to date me. I just wanted to understand whether he was asking for a fling (as any French guy asking the very same question in this situation) or if it was simply a cultural misunderstanding (which I'm glad it is, honestly)

[gato]

I'd bet that he's more conservative than you with regard to relations, as most Chinese guys are. If he's after a fling, I think you would know it by now and wouldn't have to wonder about the difference between "date" and "sortir".

[ansileran]

Thanks Gato

I'm waiting for him to come back quite impatiently and have been giddy and absent-minded at work for two days now ^^

As far as I know, Chinese guys appear to be more "gentlemanly" than French, those I know at least. Yesterday was a French-Chinese language exchange and there was this Chinese guy that insisted on giving me his seat (and taking my chair) because it was more comfortable. French guys around the table all looked at him like he was crazy but I thought it was sweet, even if a bit akward (because this is the first time something like this happens to me in France, Russians seem to do this kind of things too).

[PengHaoShi]

ansileran,

to pay for dinner is very common and standard. That everybody pays for his own bill is only seen with foreigners. So, whenever Chinese are going out, one will pick the bill. First, there will be a big discussion, who is allowed to pay, one might sneak out to the toilette and on his way will pick the bill, or the highest ranking will pay ....There is a lot of ceremony about this. That applies, whether going out with family, friends, business dinner or whatsoever - so very normal. You can let him pay and next time, you invite and pay for him, that's what normally Chinese people are doing.

In Shanghai, it is very common, that the boyfriend / husband carries her handbag. I personally find this a bit strange (I'm German as well as my wife, so I still let her carry her handbag), but it's very common, however, you can easily explain to him the cultural difference and French people would look at him in a different way, if he carries your handbag.

Chinese girls are also going out with (male) friends, e.g. classmates, however, they normally go out with a group of people. I do not see much difference to Europe.

It is not very common, that a girl will invite a man to her home and cook for him. That would have already quite some indication. However, if there is a group of people and you do some cooking, then it's a different story; that's quite common, after dinner watch some movie or play cards (or mahjong) or go out for a drink.

In Shanghai, a lot of the housework is also done by the husband, especially quite often the cooking. You might invite some friends and ask him to do some Chinese cooking.

To put the best pieces of food on his plate is a common, traditional way in China, especially for the guest of honor or the elderly, but also girlfriend to boyfriend and vice versa, to show appreciation.

One other thought: not only try to understand him but also his thoughts in regard to his family and his family's value system. You might not only get a boyfriend, but also a whole family. It might be a modern, open minded family, but it also could be a very traditional one, where he has to play his role as a son. So, you have to consider, whether ever in life you could play the role of a traditional Chinese daughter-in-law.

Do you know these ones: http://www.qingdaone...-style-divorce/ or http://v.youku.com/v...AyNjQyNDUy.html It's definitely exaggerating, but also some truth in it.

These are my thoughts from an old German chap, living since more than 10 years in Shanghai, but the perception might also be a bit biased through "Cultural Filtering".

[ansileran]

Thanks a lot PengHaoShi !

I guess my own experience has really biaised my perception of boys-girls relationships, as I have mostly grown up in an environment where the number of guys was much higher than the number of girls and few people lived close to each other so outings were mostly two people at the time, without any meaning to it.

I've heard about the traditional family thing and it's definitely on my "must absolutely talk about" list. Though, since he wants to live in France and his parents seem to be okay with it, it looks like they are not "that" traditional (at least compared to guys who say immediately that they want to go back to China as soon as possible and that their parents would never accept a non-Chinese girlfriend)... Anyway, if he stays in France and if it does progress to a long term relationship, he will be getting MY family, which might be much harder to get used to...

Those other things you mention are very insightful. The fact is that I let him pay at the restaurant (didn't even discuss it much, just explained to him what the French customs was) because it was a Chinese restaurant, owned by people he knew and he probably would have felt terribly uncomfortable if I had paid. Looking back, I think the waitress might have thought I was his girlfriend, but it's hard to tell : they used wenzhouhua to talk to each other...