2nd+3rd = 2nd+neutral?

[L-F-J]

I've heard of the half 3rd tone, the half 4th tone, and other tone changes, but I've never come across this rule before.

I was told by a native speaker, who then went and confirmed with several friends that when a word has a 2nd tone followed by 3rd, the 3rd tone becomes neutral.

The word we were discussing was 连累, but 词典 might be another more common example. According to this unspoken rule, the second characters' 3rd tones don't get pronounced at all, not even as half-tones. They just become neutral.

Can anyone else weigh in on this, and possibly give other examples?

[tooironic]

I'll quote my blog entry to answer your question:

Second-syllable Stress

Whether the speaker stresses the second syllable in some words depends a lot on the region in which they are from. It has been argued that southerners tend to emphasise the second syllable with a marked tone, but this is only a generalisation; as Greater China becomes more and more interconnected and globalised, it becomes more difficult to pigeon-hole speakers’ accents into certain rules and regions. This can be compared to the situation in Australia, where although we definitely have a distinctive accent, many people – consciously or unconsciously – have adopted American twangs.

• 别人biérén or biéren <n.> others; other people
  
• 玻璃 bōlí or bōli <n.> glass
  
• 程度 chéngdù or chéngdu <n.> degree; extent; level; standard
  
• 窗户 chuānghù or chuānghu <n.> window
  
• 聪明 cōngmíng or cōngming <adj.> intelligent; smart
  
• 打算 dǎsuàn or dǎsuan <v.> to plan; to intend
  
• 打听 dǎtīng or dǎting <v.> to inquire about; to ask about
  
• 地方 dìfāng or dìfang <n.> place
  
• 姑娘 gūniáng or gūniang <n.> 1. girl 2. (dated) daughter 3. (slang) prostitute
  
• 护士 hùshi or hùshì <n.> nurse
  
• 困难 kùnnán or kùnnan <adj.> difficult <n.> difficulty
  
• 朋友 péngyǒu or péngyou <n.> friend
  
• 似乎 sìhū or sìhu <adv.> as if; seemingly
  
• 小姐 xiǎojiě or xiǎojie <n.> 1. Miss 2. young lady 3. (slang) prostitute
  
• 知道 zhīdào or zhīdao <v.> to know
  

Also, let me add, speakers from Taiwan usually pronounce both tones as they are.

[anonymoose]

I don't think this is a sandhi rule. It maybe just happens on certain words.

The way I (as a non-native speaker) pronouce those words listed in tooironic's post is as follows:

• 别人biérén
  
• 玻璃 bōli
  
• 程度 chéngdù
  
• 窗户 chuānghu
  
• 聪明 cōngming
  
• 打算 dǎsuàn
  
• 打听 dǎtīng
  
• 地方 dìfang
  
• 姑娘 gūniang
  
• 护士 hùshi
  
• 困难 kùnnán
  
• 朋友 péngyǒu
  
• 似乎 sìhū
  
• 小姐 xiǎojiě
  
• 知道 zhīdào
  

I guess my pronunciation doesn't follow any consistent pattern.

[HusbandOfWuhan]

This is not necessarily a rule. It is a traditional habit of some speakers in colloquial situations, especially from Beijing and possibly some other places, I think. Having said that, it is certainly not how all Chinese people speak Mandarin. If you listen carefully to CCTV news, they do not necessarily have this habit and the news readers are the most standard speakers of Mandarin. They read fast, but you can still hear the 3rd tone after 2nd tone words.

[imron]

but 词典 might be another more common example

I don't think I've ever heard 词典 pronounced 2nd-neutral.

[HusbandOfWuhan]

A similar example to 词典 is "恩典" which means "grace". If you watch ancient Chinese TV drama, and you listen to this word being said, it is 2nd and 3rd not second and neutral. But is it that important? Some people speak with 2nd and neutral perhaps because they have a habit of speaking faster, but you don't “have to"。On the other hand. there's no need to exagerate the third tone either.

[L-F-J]

A similar example to 词典 is "恩典" which means "grace". If you watch ancient Chinese TV drama, and you listen to this word being said, it is 2nd and 3rd not second and neutral. But is it that important?

I would say it's quite important, because 恩典 is usually 1st and 3rd. Hence the 3rd tone wouldn't change.