Do you think Benny's explanation is plausible?

[li3wei1]

It seems a lot of these threads are a waste of study time.

I thought that was the whole point of this forum!

[imron]

Popular posts are a reflection of what people on the forums have upvoted at a particular point in time. They are also time limited to a week or so, so what was popular this week will not necessarily be popular next week even if it still has more votes.

[Lao Che]

Benny released a new video recently showing his progress after 6 months: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoWXYmLpNJY.

I think his case is interesting because he is wholly focused on learning the langauge and has documented his progress at regular intervals. He does not have to work, attend school, or take care of a family; he has been immersed and focused for a complete six months. Also, his method is to focus on speaking early and often, with the exclusion of reading and writing proficiency. To me, that makes his progress extremely interesting and perhaps indicative of the progress a beginner could expect with the time, effort, and method Benny used (and opens discussion for where his method is strong or weak). To be clear, I am not impressed with his results (his shrill, stilted speech, even on his pet topics, is difficult to listen to, but it has improved a lot) because the results were within my expectations (he might have fallen a bit short of my expectations, truthfully). It's fascinating to see someone's language skills evolve sequentially over videos. I wish I could check my early progress now (and likely turn off the video after 10 seconds due to embarassment!).

[Glenn]

Well, according to the video selling the Pimsleur method, Dr. Paul Pimsleur's research found that writing is a detriment to language learning in the early stages. I can't speak to that, as I've always been more analytical in my learning, reading about grammar and grammar patterns and trying to read the language and whatnot. I'm also not one to just start talking to people, which has been detrimental in my view, but... whatever.

[陳德聰]

Hm. If he can understand everything she says, I'm pretty impressed. I just have to rewind to understand him. But I think perhaps the best way to appreciate Benny is that he has been studying for 6 months now and has reached this level. Pretend he doesn't own a site with the title that it has.

I feel like he has done quite a bit more than most learners would do in 6 months, though his level is not more exceptional than other people who have had immersive training for a similar amount of time, though perhaps if they have less fluent speech they would probably be able to read or write a bit as well.

[Gharial]

I was Googling just now for Moser's quite well-known and loved article on 'Why Chinese is so damn hard' (moser chinese damn hard), to direct a friend to for a "light" read, when I noticed that the second result (after Moser's actual article at pinyininfo) involved Benny commenting on it in some shape or form, here:

http://www.fluentin3...hs.com/chinese/

I'm not sure quite when Benny wrote those comments, but I must say that page as a whole seems a little disingenuous to me, considering that he fell short of his target, didn't appear to convince many here at CFs with his excuses, and achieved a level that I personally would've been embarrassed to blog about much if at all.

[Shelley]

As I have always said from the very first Benny post, I don't disagree with his attitude, his dedication, what he has accomplished and his attempt to encourage people to learn Chinese, I have always disagreed with his use of the words Fluent and 3 Months in the same sentence:)

Not fluent in 3 months................ end of story

[OneEye]

At this point I generally just chalk it all up to "no clue what he's talking about," "no desire to find or report actual facts," and "lots of marketing BS." He wasn't writing that article to present anything resembling facts. He's trying to win people over, much like with this whole thing he did. He was out to prove something from the beginning, and he has bent everything that happened in the process to fit his agenda, to the point of being blatantly dishonest. The cherry on top was when he blamed his failure on Taiwanese people not socializing the way he likes to.

I appreciate his desire to encourage people to learn Chinese. I just wish the way he went about it wasn't so disingenuous and self-serving.

All that said, it's interesting that we're still talking about this, nearly a year after his "mission" started. He has certainly created some ripples.

[Gharial]

I created some ripples (and I don't mean the Galaxy chocolate bars) the other night when I dropped a hideous stinky floater into the toilet bowl.

Edit: I see some people have little sense of humour and have docked hard-earned (but apparently as quickly lost!) reputation points. Tough crowd!

Edit 2: Some kindly Samaritan has bumped me back up a point - thanks!

[roddy]

I'll knock you back down. It's a topic most people would rather see the back of, it hasn't been posted in for well over a month, and you bump it up with what I presume you thought was a joke, without bothering to actually comment on the topic. I'm sure some more Samaritans will be along shortly.

[Gharial]

If you feel that put out Roddy, you could just lock the thread, like you did with the other BL one. (Wouldn't be any skin off my nose). My comment, such as it was, was simply to imply that there might be some similarity between Benny's "quest" in Chinese and a hideous stinky floater (that isn't easily flushed away), and I'm not sure anything more constructive would've been welcomed. Personally, I thought it wasn't too bad a joke, but I appreciate tastes may differ. Anyway, I'll be extremely careful not to "unnecessarily" bump threads in future and with anything less than stellar material - I'm sure that will make the forums a much more vibrant and welcoming place!

Edit: Oh dear, another dissatisfied, yet anonymous "ranker". Shame the person didn't air their opinion openly (I'll give Roddy that!), would've been more fun (for me at least) than the pathetic measly red minus blob sullying this amazing post! I certainly won't be scolded (seriously, who d'ya think you flippin' well are Roddy, me bleedin' mother?!) or "bullied" into immediate apologetic silence for such a minor "transgression" (I feel I have contributed more than enough serious and helpful posts to these forums, thank you very much). My honest advice: Take deep breaths, and get out more.

[rebor]

All right, I've know voted down your two last posts in this thread, so I guess I'm just another dissatisfied, anonymous "ranker" who needs to take more deep breaths and get out more. Well, to be perfectly honest with myself, you might actually have a point But reviving old threads to make jokes about toilet bowls, I think one shouldn't be too surprised if the reception isn't overwhelmingly positive. I personally like this forum exactly because it isn't filled with stupid jokes and endless flamewars, but that might just be the fascist in me speaking.

This is reply #52. Benny is a marketing genius. Personally, that's all I take away from this.

[Gharial]

Thanks for putting your name to your feelings, Rebor. Good self-effacing joke, too!

I think it might aid some discussions if there weren't this silly anonymous reputation system (or often quite intrusive moderation of a sort) somewhat stifling things, but hey ho, that's Chinese-forums' set-up for ya. I've never particularly LIKED these forums, but obviously they do have their uses. I just wish things weren't so serious all the time, and there are some users who from their postings appear to be very objectionable and unpleasant people (but strangely, their posts don't get marked down much...I guess most readers don't want to get involved at all in spats, and reserve the points system for making positive rather than negative or "retaliatory" awards. That's what I try to do, FWIW). Anyway, those who really like indulging their index fingers, keep the negatives coming, they are just blobs on a screen to me by now. Hic!

Back "on topic", how's this for another stab at the word 'ripples':

Ripples there may be, OneEye, but they've rather blocked the toilet upset the boat.

(Yup, I can be a bit incorrigible sometimes, so please don't keep trying to change me! Unless you want yet more silly jokes. (You have been warned!)).

[Gharial]

Benny is a marketing genius.

I can't remember quite who said it or where (I got distracted by some red flashing blobs), but somebody made a very good point along the lines of, if Benny were more canny he'd have admitted to a few mistakes and over-optimism in his Chinese quest, as "people like their heroes to be a bit flawed". Edit: Ah, it was GaryM on the second page of this very thread! I'd had several websites open at the same time and mistakenly thought I'd read it elsewhere.