What constitutes food poisoning in China

[pprendeville]

What constitutes food poisoning in China

Have been in China since 21 June and have gotten sick twice with what I think was food poisoning. The first case was about 5 days into the trip. Went to bed around 10pm and at around 11 got diarrhoea and must have went around 11 times that night. Not nice at all. Was diying all day next day in bed with fever, headache and general lethargy. Mother-in-law gave me 氟派酸 which are orange capsules. Also took 健胃消食片 which are white tablets and finally an oral suspension called 吗丁啉. In fairness, twy seemed to do the job and tht evening i was ok again. 

I got sick agai yesterday. Woke up around 9 and was shattered despite getting 8-9 hours sleep. Had some 小米 for breakfast but didn't feel great. Around 12 midday I felt rotten again an started getting diarrhoea again and was bedridden all day. Same medication again. On both occasions I'd eaten 鱼香肉丝 so I think I'll be steering clear of that from now on. Mother-in-law is blaming the weather as it is raining and hot etc but I'm not buying it. 

Do these symptoms match up wiyh other food poisoning cases as i dont thin Ive had it before or is it just my immune system is not used to the food? Have been in China for a year before and over and back for a few holidays since then. The old hygiene isnt the beat here either with plenty of black flies in the kitchen and bowls not washed very thoroughly, food being picked off the floor and reoffered to the kids etc. Can someone tell me what the scientific names are for these medicines and also confirm that they are safe? I've just had a read of the Food and Drug Safety in China thread and it's made me want to ensure what The food and medicines I'm taking are safe. 

[jkhsu]

Here's what you took. You can search online for details.

氟派酸 = Norfloxacin

吗丁啉 = Domperidone

健胃消食片 is some kind of herbal medicine. See this link:

http://www.hda.gov.cn/CL0112/3247.html

I am kind of surprised that you're letting your mother-in-law play doctor. When I go to China, I always bring my medicines and will usually call my doctor in the USA if anything gets serious. I also will familiarize myself with International hospitals around the area. This is one of the reasons why I stick to major cities. Even in Shanghai, there is some serious lack of knowledge among locals on the proper use of Western medicines, especially antibiotics.

To avoid food poisoning I stick to cooked foods that are served hot. Perhaps the spices in the 鱼香肉丝 are bothering you? Otherwise, it seems like a pretty safe dish to me. Watch out for pickled food, especially stuff like pickled crab or shellfish. Also, refrigeration is not taken seriously there. Food is often left out on the table for hours during a hot summer day. Something to watch out for.

[abcdefg]

Your description sure sounds like some kind of foodborne illness. After reading this and other recent posts from your trip to your wife's village, sounds like the sanitary conditions leave a lot to be desired. Have the children gotten sick as well?

[jiacheng]

I have to agree with abcdefg, it sounds like something in the food. I have experienced very similar symptoms myself many times since I've been here in Shanghai. I would doubt that it's anything in 鱼香肉丝 itself as that is a popular dish among foreigners, and your symptoms don't sound like a food allergy to me. I would say that some more likely culprits are:

- the preparer doesn't understand or care about the importance of washing their hands with soap after going number 2

- Bad/spoiled meat.

- ditch oil (地沟油)

[pprendeville]

Jkhsu: I think I have been very naive about the situation alright. The first drug seems to have a lot of issues according to Wikipedia. Have told them I'm staying clear of it and the kids are not to take it either (wife not happy with this but she's much much more naive than I am). You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned refrigeration. Since I've been here I haven't seen the fridge door being opened (maybe once to store iced tea drinks). I brought up several issues with my wife this eve and she went on the defensive. Issues included: 

- food not being refrigerated after use and attracting 蝇子 of which there are loads in the house which doesn't seem to bother them

- waste food being left near the rooms which will attract 蝇子 (all that needs to be done is to put it further away)

- i was given a cracked bowl today which sounds petty but the cracks are dangerous plus they store germs

- rubbish (nappies, food, plastic, rubble) being dumped out the front (3 m from our room) which is probably creating a breeding ground for rats

- bed sheets that haven't been changed for 3 weeks that smell of pee and no 2 since our children are in and out of nappies

- father in law smoking in same room as children. I have to bring him up on this continuously (which I don't like doing as its not my house), my wife says nothing even though I've requested it numerous times

All these can be solved easily if proper attention is paid but there were excuses for everything. Very frustrating. The best excuse was that father in law would get cancer if he gave up fags too quickly (and this advice apparently came from a doctor). Enquired about a launderette as washing machine in the home uses too much water apparently. Water supply gets cut off every second day. Wife doesn't know if they wash bed sheets in launderette but they do dry clean. I'm starting to feel like a real moaner but the whole situation is really getting to me especially as we have 3 young kids. 

abcdefg: eldest daughter got badly bitten by 蚊子 2 days after arriving and came out in hives. They looked like chicken pox but she had got them just after Christmas. Took her to Shijiazhuang No2 Hospital to dermatologist and he said it was the change in temperature and food etc. 3 days ago she started vomiting and couldn't keep anything down so I think that could well have been something she ate. The other 2 kids are fine but 老二 is mainly drinking bottles and eating fruit and is fine while 老三 is exclusively on bottles which makes me think it's the food that's the problem.

[abcdefg]

Sounds like time to depart from the village.

[xianhua]

I have experienced many of the issues you raised in a similar rural setting. My conclusion, some time ago, was to stay in a nearby hotel (or rent if longer) and visit the in-laws a few times during the stay - or better still - meet them in a decent restaurant and foot the bill. Providing your village setting is not in a remote mountainous region then I assume there will be a hotel nearby. Obviously the in-laws must never find out the real reason for your decision, and you'll have to make excuses next time such as "we don't want to be a burden" or "I fear the children are too noisy for you". The health of your family is paramount, and nothing is going to change the way life is conducted there. By staying in your own setting, you take back control. I realise that a hotel isn't an ideal setting with three children, but nothing is worse than seeing your own children suffer.

[gato]

Yeah, maybe it's time to see the rest of the country.

[jbradfor]

Yes, seeing the rest of the country is a good idea / excuse.

Going to a hotel in the same city, well, I've been thinking about this and I have concerns.

As I see it, there is absolutely no way you can stay at a hotel in the same city without seriously insulting you in-laws. It's standard in Chinese culture than when guests come to visit, you just pack them into your house however you can, staying somewhere else is really not done unless you really have to, even when doing so would actually make everyone happier. [i attribute this to a combination of Chinese frugality, hospitality, and avoiding confrontation.]

Using your health is not an excuse. They live there, and they're still alive, so to say otherwise would insult them and/or just make you look bad. [Your only possibility is to play the bullshit "white and Chinese are different genetically, so it doesn't work for me" card, but that's a dangerous path, as once you play it, they're going to turn around and play it at some later date.]

I'm sorry that you're getting sick, but I think your best option is just to endure it.

Your kids health is another issue. China's infant mortality rate is 25.6, while Ireland's is 5.2. [source] And I would guess that in rural China, the rate is even higher. So there is a real concern there. If you think you can keep them healthy for the next month, then I would suggest just staying. If not, going traveling would be good, if you can afford it. Given that your wife is not visiting anyone anyway, why not? Or maybe you can change your ticket and go home earlier? Any chance work can contact you and see there is an emergency and you need to go back?

I brought up several issues with my wife this eve and she went on the defensive.

Surprise. You're insulting her country and her family and her hometown. What did you expect?

[Silent]

Using your health is not an excuse. They live there, and they're still alive, so to say otherwise would insult them and/or just make you look bad.

I think it's very well possible to use the health excuse. It is very well possible to explain that your (immune) system is not habited to the circumstances and needs acclimatisation. Exactly the same would be an issue the other way around. If they would come to Europe they would need to acclimatize too. That said, is it really that big an issue? In my experience if you're a bit carefull, especially with water, there is seldom trouble. But this will depend or your attitude at home too. I mean if you're freak on hygiene and sanitation you're very likely to have a worse immune system then when you're a bit looser.

For some-one on a family visit to their partners family it off course may feel a bit different, but to me experiencing the local live is part of the added value of travelling. Eating at a restaurant is really not a solution to the problem. I've seen at several places in China that the veggies are washed in the sewer called river and served as raw salad. What happens with your food that you can't observe is anyones guess. In the end for the food to be safe it's just a matter of only eating and drinking what is properly heated and/or peeled.

[xianhua]

As I see it, there is absolutely no way you can stay at a hotel in the same city without seriously insulting you in-laws.

Precisely. That's how you see it. How I see it, and have experienced first-hand, is that with a mix of tact and diplomacy, it's perfectly possible to stay in an alternative setting without insulting anyone.

[frankwall]

Perhaps, staying healthy is more important than insulting somebody in this case...

[abcdefg]

I see from your first post that you arrived 21 June. How long are you scheduled to stay?

Edit: I found the answer in another of your threads. Six weeks. Until about 26 July. So that's another 16 days or so.

This whole trip sounds as though it has been a painful eye opener. I hope it does not wreck your marriage. I think, in years past, I would have hung myself with a white silk scarf if forced to endure six long weeks cooped up with my in-laws.

[pprendeville]

Guys, I have to admit the humour in this thread is keping me going. Is there any significance to the white scarf reference? Just showed this to my Chinese friend where I have come to seek refuge in, and he had a good chuckle about it.

I don't think I'll be going to stay in a hotel as I think that would be very disrespectful to Mammy and Daddy-in-law. They are actually not too bad apart from Daddy-in-law as he's a bit grumpy. I find it very hard to judge people with stern faces and his face is as stern as they come. I stayed in the best hotel in my wife's hometown in 2004 in December and I'll never gorget the experience. Twas the nigh before our wedding, there was no hot water and it was way too cold to shower, I had brought no thermals, the bed was like a fridge, I was whisked there the day of arrival after 20 hours of flights, had no toothbrush and none in the room, tv didn't work etc etc. No way I'm staying in a hotel with 3 kids for the next 3 weeks (leaving on 5 Aug). Give me the in-laws and the crap conditions anyday my friend. The children aren't suffering as such, it's just that I'm disappointed in the conditions as I think they have deteriorated since we were last here. When you come with 3 kids you also see things differently and I wish my wife would open her eyes to the conditions and at least mention them to her parents instead of me kicking up a stink the whole time as I must be really pissing them off at this stage which I don't like to do. I'm very greatful for their hospitality in fact.

Do they really wash veggies in those sewers. That's disgusting. We had hotpot recently and there was loads lovely looking green veg. Please God it was clean.

[imron]

We had hotpot recently and there was loads lovely looking green veg. Please God it was clean.

That's what the boiling hotpot is for. Just make sure to leave it in for a few minutes

[abcdefg]

Guys, I have to admit the humour in this thread is keping me going. Is there any significance to the white scarf reference? Just showed this to my Chinese friend where I have come to seek refuge in, and he had a good chuckle about it.

Suicide by white silk seems to be a a noble option sometimes offered in Classical Chinese history and drama. I've seen it in several historical movies about pre-modern China, which is why it came to mind. (Silk is very strong.)

Here's one reference I found:

Before the Xianfeng Emperor died in 1861, he appointed Zaiyuan, Sushun, Duanhua and five others as regents to assist his son and successor, the Tongzhi Emperor. Later that year, Empress Dowager Cixi and Prince Gong initiated the Xinyou Coup and seized power from the eight regents. Zaiyuan was arrested in Beijing and imprisoned. He was given a piece of white silk cloth to commit suicide by hanging himself with the cloth. After Zaiyuan's death, his princely title was inherited by Zaidun (載敦), a distant cousin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zaiyuan

[pprendeville]

Good to know but I think I'll pass on it for another while at least.

[Brian US]

I've only gotten severe food poisoning twice in the three years I've been here. Each time was when my parents came, which also went with me taking them to nicer restaurants, which somehow reinforces my fondness for cheap street food that has yet to make me sick.

Each time my parents happened to bring strong antibiotics from the states that cleared it right up. The time spent in a nice hotel throwing up for ten hours had me pleading for sweet release.

[Matty]

Just after a quick scan of the chat.

I remember 6 years ago I got sick pretty easily, but I haven't had more than a mildly uncomfortable throat for a couple of years now. I'd say part of it is to do with the foreign environment and bacteria your immune system has not yet learnt to identify and deport effectively. With time your immune system will identify the varying bacteria with fake or no visa papers and deport them much faster and more effectively, probably before you even notice them.

That being said.. for hot pot, always wait till the water is at a boil before removing any foods after any new food has been added, removing any food from a soup that has had any food introduced since the last boil is ... not healthy.

Avoid no brand restaurants near train stations and restaurants with no customers there's usually a reason.

You can't avoid everything, but these tips can help a bit.

[Silent]

I've only gotten severe food poisoning twice in the three years I've been here. Each time was when my parents came, which also went with me taking them to nicer restaurants, which somehow reinforces my fondness for cheap street food that has yet to make me sick.

This is heard quite common. Oftentimes the nicer restaurant is western/non-traditional food style. People don't know well how to treat this foodstuff as they are less familiar with it. Another factor is that in a nice restaurant you can't see how the food is treated which means that they may feel less need to be carefull with the food. Last but not least, in a cheap foodstall the food is often fresher. Turnover of ingredients is larger as they tend to have less choice and usually they buy fresh food on a daily basis.