Pros and Cons of Childrens Chinese Education.....deciding !

[LondonInvestigator]

I have 2 Chinese children in Uk school. I also have a Chinese wife absolutely missing her family and desperate for her children to speak Chinese [which they are slowly losing]

Personally I want to do what is best,they are still young and a grounding in Mandarin a distinct lifetime advantage,HOWEVER in the UK we lose a very formal kind loving quiet education is a school full of passionate primary teachers.

I just cant decide what to do...................any advice please?

[feihong]

Stay in the UK. If you go to China, your two children will slowly lose their English, which is worse, in my opinion. If your wife continues to speak Chinese to them then they will probably not completely lose the language. When they are older they can take Chinese lessons to bring their level up if they have the desire.

Of course, I'm giving this advice based on very little information. Can you yourself speak Chinese? If both parents speak the language to the kids on a regular basis, then the kids are not going to lose the language.

[HedgePig]

Difficult situation!

Our two children have been through a local school in Shanghai for several grades. Our older started at a local school and switched to the international division of a local school at the end of 5th grade (and found the transition very easy) while our younger one has just finished 2nd grade and will probably continue for another year at a local school. My comments below are based just on our experiences, although I think they are fairly representative.

You don't explicitly state what options you are considering, so I'm assuming the following are

1) Stay in the UK and continue UK schooling

2) Move to China and send your children to school there

Schooling in China is very tough. School starts at 8 and ends at 3.30 and there will be at least 2 hours of homework every day from first grade. It's also very competitive with lots of pressure on the children. To some extent, as a foreigner, you can resist this unless you are planning for your children to go all the way through high school and sit for the gao kao (the college entrance exam) but it's still there. The standard of education is very high in certain respects but it's also very much based on the premise that understanding comes through drilling and repetition. There is very little emphasis on critical thinking or problem solving.

I think if your children are beyond first or second grade (age 7 in China), they would really struggle to adapt to a local school unless their reading and writing is close to to native level. Remember too that most local kids start first grade being able to read a lot of Chinese already. Even if you children do read Chinese, they would probably struggle initially as the system is so different. Another disadvantage of the local schools is that although English is a major subject (along with Chinese and maths) the standard is very low for a native speaker but your children will be expected to do all the homework and won't be treated differently so they will be very bored. Similarly, if your children are behind in Chinese or maths, it will be up to you help them catch up as the teacher won't have time give your kids special attention.

If you are considering full international schools, be aware they are extremely expensive (US$25k+/year) and from what I understand don't generally offer Chinese at standard close to native level. I certainly wouldn't move to China so that my children could learn Chinese and then send them to an international school. Another option would be the international division of a local school. Some of these do offer Chinese at or close to native levels. The style of education is somewhere between that of western schools and local schools. They are also quite a bit cheaper than the full international schools (about half the price) although much more expensive than local schools.

I'm not sorry that our kids have been in a local school as it's obviously helped their Chinese progress, although they were pretty much native speakers before they started. However, we were never really sure that it was the "best" decision.

I have to say that one of our motivations for coming to China was so that our children could learn reading and written Chinese to a reasonable level. However I don't think I'd move here if that was the only major motivation. Of course this is a very personal decision.

I hope this helps a little.

[Scandinavian]

In either case. If you speak English and your wife speaks Chinese to the children, then they will become bilingual. Then it is a matter of balance, if you are just the family at home, then the children will probably get about the same amount of each language. For example if you are in the UK and your wife is the only person who speaks Chinese with them, it will become a second language, so in that case maybe find a Chinese friend for the children so Mandarin does not become something "just to talk to mummy" Also, if they watch some TV, then try to balance English language programs with Mandarin programs.

I know several mixed language couples and those who have done this consistently since early age have children today who speaks two languages well.

Not saying anything for or against moving your family, but personally I would not be too concerned about the language issue.

[HedgePig]

Re feihong: I disagree that the children will slowly lose their English - it may happen but it's not inevitable and I think it's likely that they would catch up again very quickly upon returning to the UK whilst still teenagers or younger. I think it also depends a lot on the children's own language abilities. This is one thing I wouldn't worry about too much.

[jkhsu]

In either case. If you speak English and your wife speaks Chinese to the children, then they will become bilingual.

I'm not sure about your definition of "bilingual" but there are plenty of heritage Chinese here in the USA who grew up in a similar environment (actually with both parents speaking to them in Chinese at home) and end up only understanding basic spoken Chinese without knowing how to read or write. Most of the truely "bilingual" Chinese / English speakers that I've met were ones who finished grade school or high school in China and then attended college in USA.

I actually have a friend who is planning to do what HedgePig is doing just so that his kid can learn Chinese. His situation is different though in that his family has a business that will support them in China.

Another option is going to an immersion school. Does the UK have them? We have quite a few of them where I live:

http://miparentscouncil.org/schools/

[Scandinavian]

I'm not sure about your definition of "bilingual" but there are plenty of heritage Chinese here in the USA who grew up in a similar environment (actually with both parents speaking to them in Chinese at home) and end up only understanding basic spoken Chinese without knowing how to read or write. Most of the truely "bilingual" Chinese / English speakers that I've met were ones who finished grade school or high school in China and then attended college in USA.

Obviously this can fail. I think most of my friends who have done this successfully have 1) Done it from day one 2) had longer stays in the other country or visitors from the other country each year.

Its important to start early as children in the early years (2-4) have the ability to pick up more knowledge per day than you can possibly throw at them (as far as I remember its many hundreds words per day you can learn at that age)

Seeing outside the language issue. I think children with parent of two nationalities should be exposed to both cultures so they know where they come from. Living in the other country is by far the best way of learning a culture.

[Shelley]

Taking in to account all the sensible advice already given and the fact that no one knows what the future holds or can say what if.....

I would grab the chance of giving my kids the oppurtunity of a fantasticly different life than a "formal kind loving quiet education" = boring IMHO.

Are you planning on moving there forever? No probably not i guess, just for few years, so its got to be a great adventure:)

If you give China a go and it doesn't work out for some reason, you can always come back. But at least you would have tried.

But remember this is your decision and your decision alone.

Enjoy whatever you decide and embrace it with gusto and live.

Good luck

[pprendeville]

I think he quiet life for your kids has a lot going or it. Presently in China and the quiet life does not exist here unless you live in a very remote area. The freedom children have to wander around in relative safety of a back garden does not exist here as far as I see. Read a few of my recent posts about the problems I'm having at the moment an I'm only here for 6 weeks. Does your wife come from the country or city. This will make a huge difference in terms of where you plan to live. In my opinion for your own sanity you better start learning Chimese (reading characters included) if you haven't already done so. Makes a huge difference. I'd be happy to talk to you on the phone, if you wish, to offer and advice. Just send me a private message.

[Shelley]

I notice the OP location is London when not in China, I bet he is used to not being able to let them out to play in the garden (if they have one) or on their own in a park etc..

I don't think children have the freedom to wonder anywhere safely anymore, unless you live out in the back of nowhere and in the past about 100 years ago, even then the horrible stuff till happened just not reported or cared about.

I am not quite sure why pprendeville thinks he can help any better talking on the phone, set my alarm bells ringing as to why this would be suggested. Be careful LondonInvestigater.

I see he is already learning chinese so no problems there.

If you have a chinese wife I bet you already know what you are really letting yourself in for when it comes to everyday life so its really just weather or not you want to take the plunge and move.

Think long and hard about this decision, but above all decide for yourself, the best for you, your wife and your kids.

[Silent]

I have 2 Chinese children in Uk school. I also have a Chinese wife absolutely missing her family and desperate for her children to speak Chinese [which they are slowly losing]

In your post give very little solid info basicly making every advice no more then some general remarks and random suggestions. How old are these children? What level of Chinese do they have and how did they acquiere that Chinese? Also, what options are you considering and what conditions should be met?

From the above quote, maybe incorrectly, I assume that the children have lived in China for several years and that on moving to the UK they are loosing the language due to a lack of use. Sounds quite natural to me. If you want the children to keep up their Chinese you've to make sure they use it more and use it with different people under different conditions. How that's done doesn't really matter.

Moving to China as suggested is obviously the best option to guarantee the children learn and keep up their Chinese. But this may very well be at the cost of their English. Language acquisition, specially at higher levels, is largely dependent on active use. Unless you ensure a truely bilingual environment or switch environments a couple of times the children will most likely end up with a clearly prefered language.

There is no way to tell what is best. What seems best now may turn out to be very suboptimal in 20 years or so. If the education and development of the children is guaranteed the rest is pretty much secondary.

[Lao Che]

There are often "Chinese schools" that kids and teens can go to once a week or so (and more often in the summer) to speak the language, learn how to write, and do cultural activities. Enrolling your children in one of these is a great idea as your kids will make many new friends and your wife will be introduced to many adults whose first language is not English. Also, since your wife has family in China, it should be possible to send the kids there each summer for a few weeks or months, perhaps with your wife. A friend of mine refused to put any effort into learning french, even though it was the only language spoken at home. In response, his parents sent him to live with his grandparents in rural France for an entire summer. He returned, begrudgingly bilingual.

[imron]

Enrolling your children in one of these is a great idea as your kids will make many new friends and your wife will be introduced to many adults whose first language is not English

From a social point of view it may be a good idea, but from a learning the language point of view I'm not so sure. I've not met one *BC who enjoyed going to these schools and have met more than a view that developed a dislike of Chinese specifically because they were dragged to these schools on the weekends when all of their other friends had the day off (only to realise several years later as an adult how stupid they had been, but it was too late because their language skills had already deteriorated).

It's such a common story, that I'd be wary about enrolling kids in one of these schools. A better option in my opinion would be to provide more Chinese at home and to develop their interest in the language by having plenty of age appropriate and interesting Chinese material for your kids to consume - books, TV shows, DVDs etc and have your wife read to them regularly in Chinese and so on. Also, talk with your wife and make sure that she only allows your children to talk to her in Chinese. Don't let them develop the habit of her speaking Chinese to them and them replying in English. Even if she can understand, she should say that she doesn't, until the kids switch to Chinese. Depending on the Chinese level of your children, this may initially require your wife to prompt them with the correct way to say something in Chinese, but the important thing is not to let them get away with responding in English.

[Meng Lelan]

If I were in your situation I would do what jkhsu advised, try to find a Chinese immersion school there, if there isn't one (yet!) then get yourself involved and get one established in your area. When I first came to Texas I did not think Texas would ever ever have a Chinese immersion but this fall there will be two opening up.

[pprendeville]

What the world needs is less people and more trees.

And no i am not a beliver in the one child policy in china, I am a believer in the no children policy in the whole world. We need to decrease the population. The greenest thing you can do is not have kids. I don't have any kids for this reason.

I am not quite sure why pprendeville thinks he can help any better talking on the phone, set my alarm bells ringing as to why this would be suggested. Be careful LondonInvestigater.

Think long and hard about this decision, but above all decide for yourself, the best for you, your wife and your kids.

People who make comments like this usually set alarm bells ringing for me. I personally don't think you are qualified to comment on topics like this if you deem children as being surplus to requirements of our present day world.

I prefer to deal with people face to face if possible, if not call them on the phone, the old fashioned way. If someone wanted to help me out like this I would treat it for what it is (a genuine act) and be greatful for the help. OP is not obliged to accept my offer of course.

[feihong]

imron brings up a good point about the Chinese schools that many heritage speakers attend. The idea can backfire because the children resent it so much that they develop a negative impression of the language. I've run into one person who told me he has zero interest in learning Chinese because of how his parents tried to force it on him.

I also get the impression that many such schools are not run very well. For example, the person they invite to teach the classes might have little teaching experience, making the classes both boring and ineffective. There is also the possibility that the teacher's methods are far more old school than desired (I have a friend whose weekend language teacher would actually hit students for misbehaving -- of course, this was totally acceptable in the old country). So, if such classes exist in your area, make sure to inquire about the curriculum and the teacher's qualifications.

[Shelley]

I don't see why not having any kids disqualifies me from commenting on the fact the I think the world would be better with less people.

In fact not having any proves how much i belive in this, and how much I feel it should be taken seriously.

Obviously some people must have some kids or the population would stop, but I think we should consider it a privilage and not a right to have have kids. I think IVF and other artificial ways of having kids is unnessaccary, if you can't have kids of your own adopt one or 2 or 3 or what ever, there are thousands of kids who already exsist that need a loving home, no need to make any more.

Please note that the first part of the quote from pprendaville was a part of a reply to a different topic.

As to the offer of phoning I suppose i just didn't understand what you meant, sorry. maybe i am just not used to people offering this kind of thing so early in a "relationship", I use this word as the closest thing to explain what i mean.

[xiaotao]

Since your children are biracial, I think bilingual education would be a good fit. I wouldn't do the extreme unless you have an ideal situation for the whole family. I have a couple of Chinese friends who have non Chinese husbands. They felt desparate too. I've asked them, "If Chinese was so important, why didn't they marry Chinese speaking person?" Amy Chua said in her book, Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mom, She would tell her girls that they are Chinese all the time. Her daughters said, something like, you say we are Chinese but the people in China don't think so.

It is difficult for your kids to be as Chinese as your wife. If they are good at language learning. They will be able to learn all the Chinese from mom. Kids don't always turn out the way you expect. So if you decide to go to China, go because you really want to, not just for the kids.

[Scandinavian]

It is difficult for your kids to be as Chinese as your wife

Maybe look beyond the color of the skin and just make sure the kids are raised properly, being more or less Chinese/Australian/Norweigian/Kenyan is not a qualifier for anything. Language does influence identity, but if you don't get i right during childhood you can always learn a language later in life.

[yialanliu]

As a Chinese born American. I went from K-12 and college in the US.

My biggest regret was not learning enough Chinese.

If I had a choice, I would have done 2 years of schooling in China if I could (100% local chinese school). Maybe once in 2nd grade, and once 4th or 5th grade. I wouldn't have wanted a complete education in China but it would have been beneficial for the Chinese I would gain and the very little amount of english I potentially would have lost.

One of my friends who came around the same time as me, went back for a year in 6th grade and he's still better than me in Chinese without trying because of the benefit of 1 year studying chinese as a kid that I never had.

The chinese schools I went to in the US are really jokey when compared to the alternative. Yes, they teach once a week, for like 3 hours but once a week cannot compare to a chinese environment where everyone is using Chinese daily.

Btw, schooling in China isn't tough if you aren't going to a tier 1 school. I have been to many local schools and it's very comparable if you are not studying for the entrance exams which you won't be since this is a part time endeavor that I am advocating for.

Just my 2 cents