Pros and Cons of Childrens Chinese Education.....deciding !

[jkhsu]

I think yialanliu in post #20 brings up some good points.

Putting the onus on the wife to teach the kids Chinese is just not realistic or fair in my opinion. If she speaks Chinese to the kids, they'll most likely be able to communicate at the basic level as I've mentioned in my previous post. However, being truly fluent/literate (able to speak, read and write) in Chinese is not going to happen by just osmosis while living outside of a Chinese speaking country/location.

Private Chinese school programs (weekend / after school) have existed in the US for a while but many haven't been successful in really teaching the language (and as feihong mentioned in post #16, quite of few of these are not run very well). However, there are other factors beyond the schools' control that make it difficult to learn such as the kids growing up in a non-Chinese speaking environment. Outside of the few hours a week in these schools, the kids basically are never exposed to Chinese anywhere else or have to use it other than maybe during dinner at home where the conversations consist of a good amount of English words mixed in with some basic Chinese expressions.

This may be the the reason why Chinese immersion schools started popping up here in the US recently. The way that these schools work is by gradually adjusting the percentage of Chinese and English used in the classroom based on grade level. During Kindergarten and early grades, Chinese usage is at a higher percentage (around 90% Chinese). Toward the upper grades, the percentage evens out at 50% Chinese, 50% English. The kids are taught math, science, etc. using Chinese in the hopes that they'll "use" the Chinese they've learned. The jury is still out on whether these schools are successful or not but they're the best options that I've heard of for kids to acquire Chinese outside of China.

The option of sending the kids to China / Taiwan for schooling in the primary grades is a hot topic of conversation among several Chinese parents that I know. However, being separated from the kids is a major concern. So far, I only know of one family doing this and it's only because they're all moving there and are not concerned about finances. For someone with a stable job, I would not suggest giving that up and moving to China just for the kids to learn Chinese. Of course, if you're ok with your wife and kids spending a few years in China, then that's completely up to you. Someone else mentioned spending summers in China which is also a good idea. There's no doubt that your kids will improve their Chinese much quicker by being in China but you also need to make sure that they can keep it up when they get back.

Regarding International schools: The costs make this option out of reach for most parents unless they're on an expat package with schooling costs baked in. However, if you have the funds and are planning to live in China during your kids' k-12 education, the International schools (in the major cities) are pretty good. I had the opportunity to visit the Shanghai American School (the Puxi division in Shanghai) and talk to a counselor a few years ago (I was doing a favor for an expat whose son was a junior in high school there). The environment was very diverse and it felt more "International" than a typical high school in the US, for obvious reasons. I was also impressed by the number of AP / IB classes offered and the fact that most of the graduates were getting into top colleges in the US and elsewhere. I don't think the Chinese language level of the students are on par with native Chinese in the local schools but passing the AP Chinese college exam(that's around 2 years of college level Chinese) was the norm there. While, I wouldn't recommend this option for the OP, it might be useful to know for others thinking about moving to China with a family (and are not financially strapped).

[Meng Lelan]

There is also the possibility that the teacher's methods are far more old school than desired

That really is right. I pulled my then six year old out of the local weekend Chinese school because his teacher was old school, in fact had been in the US only a few months She would post everyone's grades on the blackboard! so ever since then I tutor the kids at home with me instead of the weekend school.

[frankwall]

It does sound like a very difficult situation. It must be very hard for your wife being so far from home, and I can understand her feelings to some extent. It is a good time to be in China though, the info is a little old but it you look back at statistics showing improvement in government funded research in the higher education sector in China, at least it can be seen that a considerable amount of money is being invested in the future. Perhaps now is not the right time - try to keep their Chinese language skills alive, enjoy the good system where you are now and do this in a few years time.

[xiaotao]

I happen to have a 7th grader from Beijing staying with me. Her English is excellent, far better than her classmates. Her Chinese parents are both bilingual and the whole family works very hard to improve themselves. There is lots of pressure to succeed and a great deal of committment is needed to be bilingual. She attends a Chinese school where she has an English class. She talked about all the tests she has and lack of creativity.

I believe language learning success depends on the individual and the family environment. My kid enjoyed weekend Chinese fand Chinese immersion school. My kid experienced school in China but she didn't care for it because the days are too long and she didn't like their teaching style. The kids have lots of homework every night and no extracurricular activities. I would only consider summer school abroad.

[陳德聰]

I don't think you should be too worried about what happens with regards to your kids' language development. If they're in a predominantly English-speaking environment, it may be tough for them to learn Chinese, but it doesn't mean that they won't be able to. If mom misses home, that's probably something you should try to help out with any way you can, but moving back to China seems a bit dramatic to me.

Whether or not the kids "lose" their Chinese is not completely up to you, so perhaps take solace in that. Language Acquisition and Second Language Acquisition are kind of interesting topics for me so I find some of what has been said very fascinating (in a bit of a negative way).

Some facts:

-Having peer groups who use the target language positively affects language development.

-Receiving formal education immersed in the target language positively affects language development.

-Receiving formal education about the target language (in the home language) positively affects language development.

-Receiving early exposure (any time before puberty) to the target language leads to phonological advantages in learning the target language, even after years of disuse.

-Internal motivation positively affects language development.

Obviously there is more to language acquisition, but for the most part, these seem to be relevant to the points being brought up in this thread. Some of them are within your control, and all are weighted differently, but it is clear that short of relocating to China, there is no way to ensure that your children will absolutely learn Chinese to the same proficiency that you have in English.

Some caveats:

-You don't reach the level of proficiency in English that you have just by talking to your mother.

-You don't reach the level of proficiency in English that you have just by talking to your peer groups.

-Children who go to immersion schools have been found to test rather poorly in comparison to their same-age peers who received non-immersion education in the target language.

-People with early exposure then years of disuse and people with no exposure perform more or less the same in terms of grammar.

-Kids who don't want to learn a language aren't going to learn a language.

What I'm trying to get at is that it is not as simple as just exposing your children to Chinese. That will be very effective in creating passive bilinguals, but if you want them to be able to produce at the level of English that you probably would expect them to be able to produce after their schooling in the UK, you (and they) are going to have to put in quite a bit of effort. If you just want them to be able to converse in Chinese without discussing anything particularly in-depth, you can probably just find some Chinese couples with kids their age to grow up with.

But at the very end of it all... You probably have to concede that you can't really control what will happen with your kids in the future anyway. Just give them the opportunities so that they don't hate you for it later. If you offer them Chinese and they decide not to take it, when they're adults and wishing they could speak it, they will kick themselves and not you.

[jkhsu]

Children who go to immersion schools have been found to test rather poorly in comparison to their same-age peers who received non-immersion education in the target language.

Can you explain what you mean by this statement?

[jkhsu]

Not sure if the OP is still reading this thread but here's a great article that just came out yesterday on this topic:

To Improve Kids' Chinese, Parents Head to Asia

In the video, fast forward to 1:20 and check out the two sisters speaking Chinese. Pretty good if you ask me. It's interesting that the mother says, "there's no way you can become a fluent speaker in Chinese if you get just a few hours a week..."

[Silent]

It's interesting that the mother says, "there's no way you can become a fluent speaker in Chinese if you get just a few hours a week..."

What's interesting about that? Isn't that common sense for every language? You may learn the basics in the classroom. You may even learn the advanced grammar rules in the classroom, but without decent amount of practice/exposure there is virtually no way to get mastery of any language. I don't think I've ever met someone with good and fluent language skills without extensive exposure to that language. Often even a bilingual environment is not enough as often one language is still far more used then the other and, for example in migrant families, one language is often little spoken outside family circles and/or within the heritage language a lot of codeswitching occurs/becomes creolised.

I think the best way to become truely bilingual is regularly switching between monolingual environments. But then, if the children have a good basis they can go to China for a few years or so and become pretty much fluent too.

[Shelley]

Well does anybody know what the OP decided?

Dosen't look like he has replied to any posts, although it has been quite a lively thread

[Meng Lelan]

I really would like to know what the OP eventually does and have some kind of "progress report" too, what worked and what didn't work.