tooironic Posted August 15, 2012 at 06:35 AM Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 06:35 AM I was reading a very interesting opinion piece on China's education system the other day entitled 逗你玩:本科生毕业论文答辩. I understand 99% of the vocab, but there's one particular phrase I find a bit puzzling - 搞形式. Here's the two sentences it's used in: 一个人从幼儿园和小学开始,学校就逼着他如何搞形式,如何说假话,如何拉关系。 走过场和搞形式是我们教育中的常态,这看起来也不是什么大不了的问题,但它对人和社会的侵蚀极其严重。 My reference translation is "use structures" but in English it sounds quite vague. Can anyone tell me what they think 搞形式 specifically refers to in this context? Thanks! Quote
Guest realmayo Posted August 15, 2012 at 07:06 AM Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 07:06 AM My dictionary gives me this for 形式主义: ①formalism ②formality; act of just going through the motions And the internet seems to translate 搞形式主义 as "be done for show " ... which works in the context of your sentences. Quote
tooironic Posted August 15, 2012 at 07:54 AM Author Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 07:54 AM In that case, it seems the meaning is quite similar to 走过场 ("go through the motions"). This makes 走过场和搞形式是我们教育中的常态,这看起来也不是什么大不了的问题,但它对人和社会的侵蚀极其严重。 quite difficult to translate. My reference translation is "Going through the motions and doing things just for show is commonplace in China’s education system. This seems like a trivial issue, but it seriously corrupts both people and society." but I'm open to other ideas. Quote
andysun731 Posted August 15, 2012 at 08:11 AM Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 08:11 AM 搞形式 may be short for 搞形式主义, which means nonsensical formalism. Quote
Guest realmayo Posted August 15, 2012 at 09:31 AM Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 09:31 AM tooironic: Could you just ignore one of the two in the English version? Quote
anonymoose Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:34 AM Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 11:34 AM Sorry to go off topic, but I'd just like to ask another question about the first sentence quoted by the OP. 一个人从幼儿园和小学开始,学校就逼着他如何搞形式,如何说假话,如何拉关系。 Is this sentence grammatically sound? Analysing it (from my admittedly anglocentric point of view), since 逼 is a verb meaning to force someone to do something, I would expect this to be followed by a verbal phrase indicating what the person is being forced to do. However, in this sentence, it is followed by 如何搞形式 which, although contains a verb, functions more like a noun in the sentence. I would be more tempted to say something like 学校就逼着他学习如何搞形式. Any comments? Quote
skylee Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:37 PM Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 12:37 PM #6 makes sense. But not everyone writes grammatically correct sentences all the time. Quote
anonymoose Posted August 15, 2012 at 01:54 PM Report Posted August 15, 2012 at 01:54 PM OK, so are you confirming that my suspicion is correct, or would you say that the original sentence is acceptable? Quote
Kenny同志 Posted August 16, 2012 at 01:41 AM Report Posted August 16, 2012 at 01:41 AM In my opinion, the original is fine. 如何 fuctions as an adverb here- you can take it away, but its existence hardly changes the structure. Quote
daofeishi Posted August 17, 2012 at 06:46 AM Report Posted August 17, 2012 at 06:46 AM I've heard 搞形式 used to mean going through formal/predetermined procedures mechanically without regard to the result or outcome, i.e. doing something purely pro forma. I might have taken some poetic license with that sentence and written "it has become common in our education system to focus on meeting formal requirements and ticking off boxes, a seemingly minor issue that in reality is seriously damaging to both individuals and society at large." I'm not sure how well that captures the sentiment of the original text? Quote
陳德聰 Posted August 20, 2012 at 03:07 AM Report Posted August 20, 2012 at 03:07 AM Ditto to #9 & #10. 逼著他(如何)搞形式... I think here we call it "rote" learning. Quote
tooironic Posted August 20, 2012 at 03:13 AM Author Report Posted August 20, 2012 at 03:13 AM I like dafeishi's translation, i.e. "meeting formal requirements and ticking off boxes". That sounds like it captures the essence of the original. @陳德聰 - isn't "rote learning" more like 死記硬背? Quote
陳德聰 Posted August 20, 2012 at 03:18 AM Report Posted August 20, 2012 at 03:18 AM Oh. True that, I kind of just lump all of that in the same group I guess. I might take some liberties with the translation and use "focus on formalities" or "navigating bureaucracy" or something like that. Quote
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