Being less formal

[abcdefg]

I have a new acquaintance who is a lot younger, probably half my age. She's not a romantic friend, but instead is helping me with a project. She routinely uses 您 instead of 你。 It's clear she was brought up (in Hubei) to be polite, but I'd prefer it if she didn't talk to me as though as I were her boss or a friend of her father.

What is an easy and commonly used way to let her know it's OK to be less formal, if there is one? We are both in Kunming. Thanks in advance.

[skylee]

Why you just tell her to use 你 instead. Tell her that in fact you are not much older than she and would really like to be called 你. Like 其實我們年紀差不多，哈哈。你就別再用您來叫我啦。

Edit - but then,whenever I hear people address me as 您, I would think that he/she is so polite and that really forms a good impression.

[陳德聰]

"You can use 你 instead of 您 with me, just so you know; it'd make me feel more comfortable too."

EDIT: Dang it skylee beat me to it.

[unicar]

try this, 用您称呼太见外了, she would probably know what you are implying to and make a change.

[abcdefg]

你就别再用恁来叫我啦 and 用您称呼太见外了both sound good. Thanks @Skylee and @Unicar.

I have other friends here who are about this young lady's age. They usually use 您 the first time we meet, then switch on their own to 你 as we become better acquainted. If they keep using 您, it makes me feel ancient.

#3 -- We speak Chinese, not English.

[roddy]

I did once hear the charming "别老您来您去，好不好。"

[Kenny同志]

I have a new acquaintance who is a lot younger, probably half my age.

I would use 您 if I were her and would prefer being called 您 if I were you.

"别老您来您去，好不好。"

This makes me think the speaker is annoyed.

[陳德聰]

I find it odd that if you're speaking Chinese you don't know how to just tell her straight up.

I honestly think the most direct one (#2, though your ages are clearly not 差不多) would be best.

你别在用您叫我啦

用你来叫我就好啦

Every time someone tells me to stop being polite there is a slight awkwardness followed by the relief of no longer needing to worry about it, so don't worry about being too abrupt; it will always be abrupt.

[Erbse]

In my native language we also the equivalent of 你 and 您. But keep in mind, on the one hand you have people who feel old and when addressed formal (like you and myself). And then there is the other side, they feel offended if not addressed formally.

When people younger than me up to my age keep using the formal way to talk to me, I will just say "I'm not that old."

[prateeksha]

We maintain an extremely clear-cut distinction between 你 and 您 equivalents in Hindi and Urdu both [in fact, we have 3 different addresses depending upon seniority], so I also kind of felt a compulsory urge to continue the same when finally speaking Chinese in China. However, I noticed: 1. When talking beyond customary exchanges even with 长辈, focusing too much on using 您 [for me, as a foreigner studying Chinese] would hinder the natural course of conversation, I would keep thinking of replacing 您 with 你 as I would speak. Of course such a conversation can be done, but my mind would be under a little stress from all the 你 --> 您 conversion. 2. I noticed students using 你 when talking to teachers and it seemed teachers were ok with it. Or am I missing something here?

[gato]

Many of the southern dialects (such as Shanghainese) don't have a 你/您 distinction, so if you were in the south, it's more common that people don't care about the distinction even when they speak Mandarin.

[abcdefg]

I would use 您 if I were her and would prefer being called 您 if I were you.

Thanks to all for the ideas and suggestions.

#7 -- @Kenny, your reply addresses the unstated part of my question. Namely, not just how to say the right words, but what is culturally appropriate in this particular situation. Appreciate that insight very much.

She has told me stories of how strict her parents were about forms of address and about courtesy at the table (serving elders first and such.) Seems to be a point of pride that she was brought up to be very well mannered.

I have a second social/cultural comment. She's a single, unattached (younger) woman and I am a single, unattached (older) man. We both would prefer our interaction to be businesslike but friendly. Neither of us is seeking more. I've thought that perhaps her use of 您 is a way to make her boundaries clear and maintain a comfortable distance. If so, I'm fine with that.

[gato]

This writer says that the 你/您 distinction doesn't exist in Sichuanese, Shangainese, Minanese, and Shaanxinese.

http://blog.sina.com...c201008kor.html

四、其他语言的对比：

（一）先与我们的方言比较一下：[/font]

四川话，这是我的家乡话。在这支方言中，‘你’就‘你’，没有尊称。上海话中，‘你’字为‘侬’，没有尊称。广东话，粤语‘你’近于‘雷’，没有尊称。福建的闽南语，陕西话......

这么多方言都没有尊称，就只有‘普通话’这支‘正统’的一方之言有尊称，看来它确实是不普通呢。

Here is a more academic article suggesting that 您 became more popular with the designation of Beijingnese as the national language with the KMT.

http://www.doc88.com...4271573243.html

尊称您的产生过程

[abcdefg]

#13 -- As stated in my original post, I'm in Kunming and we are speaking Putonghua. So I'm not sure if what you found applies to my question. But thank you for your scholarly efforts.

[gato]

My point is it's common for southerners to not use 您 in everyday speech, even when speaking Putonghua, because the 你/您 distinction doesn't exist in their dialect. I don't know what your observation has been in Kuming. Do most people in Kunming use 您 when speaking Putonghua?

By way of comparison, in Beijing, 您 is very common in everyday speech. It's used almost with everybody with whom one's not on a familiar level, even with colleagues, for example.

Another way of saying this is that if you had lived mostly in Beijng rather than Kunming, you might be very comfortable with her using 您 with you. People living in different region or with different dialect background have different habits with the use of 您. That's all I'm saying.

[carlo]

Even in putonghua, I suspect there are subtle differences in usage between 你／您 and the equivalents in European languages, eg du/Sie, tu/vous etc, although I cannot point them out precisely.

In places like Beijing, you can carry on using 您 for literally years, in relationships that are otherwise pretty casual and easygoing. It’s also not quite like switching to first-name basis in English, which to my mind seems to happen sooner in a relationship and/or signals a bigger change in “psychological distance”.

Suppose one could write a couple of treatises trying to show this: just my 2 mao.

[gato]

Yes, in Beijing, 您 is used virtually with everyone who's not a friend or family members who's of same generation or younger. It's so commonplace that one wouldn't think of it as being a polite or formal usage. But that understanding varies from place to place, and people to people.

Another point suggested by the articles is that 您 is relatively new to the national language (less than 100 years), so its use is not yet stable or uniform.

[abcdefg]

My point is it's common for southerners to not use 您 in everyday speech, even when speaking Putonghua, because the 你/您 distinction doesn't exist in their dialect. I don't know what your observation has been in Kuming. Do most people in Kunming use 您 when speaking Putonghua?

@Gato, apologies for missing your point. In Kunming 您 is used when addressing people in authority, with those of senior rank, with venerable elders, and with most teachers, at least initially.

I have many friends here who are much younger than myself, many of them university students. The usual scenario is that the first time we meet, they may say 您 once or twice just to let me know they can be courteous. Then they soon revert to the more familiar 你 and we continue in that mode from then on, both spoken and written.

I do call my new acquaintance by her complete name and she calls me by mine. We don't, however, use "Miss XYZ" or "Mister ABC."

I'm not shy, and will just ask her directly about the 您 next time we meet and let her know that 你 would be acceptable to me if she is comfortable with it.

[skylee]

Please remove her name (or use XX to replace her given name). Her privacy is as important as yours.

[Kenny同志]

abcdefg wrote:

In Kunming 您 is used when addressing people in authority, with those of senior rank, with venerable elders, and with most teachers, at least initially.

In fact, 您 can be used to address anyone who you think is respectable. It's not limited to those you mentioned, for example, a 50-year-old man can call a 30-year-old 您 as well.