translation help

[orentaub11]

who can translate to english:

大碍使唤

南辕北撤

大碍使唤

南辕北撤

[skylee]

I think if you ask for people's help, it would be helpful to tell them why you need it. And as you want help in translation, you should provide more context of the text.

Also, it would be difficult for you and the people who want to help if there are typos in the text, like the last character of 南辕北撤.

MDBG is a useful tool that you might like to try. http://chinesedictionary.mobi/?handler=QueryWorddict&mwdqb=%E5%8D%97%E8%BD%85%E5%8C%97%E8%BD%8D

[Shelley]

Have to agree with skylee, your request was very abrupt and inaccurate as you have written the same thing twice, It would also be more in keeping with the ethos of this forum if you made an attempt at translation yourself and then asked for corrections and help.

As skylee says it would be helpful to know the context as this can aid translation

Also your request sounds like a challange which is odd but probably due to the brevity of your question..

[orentaub11]

these are idioms and don't need context.or you know them or not.

i don't understand what so bothers you with someone asks for a translation help in a language forum.

[imron]

Generally speaking, the more information you provide, the more people are likely to help because for whatever reason, providing backstory and context as to why you want such things translated makes it interesting for people.

People who are going to help will be volunteering their free time and language knowledge, and so you need to make it seem worth their while somehow. It also helps to show any research or efforts you have made to attempt to solve the problem yourself, because people are more likely to help someone who has tried but gotten stuck than someone who just can't be bothered using a dictionary or Google.

Simply providing a list of words and saying 'translate this' doesn't really make it interesting for people who are helping, and doesn't let them know what effort if any you have made into solving the problem, so don't be surprised if you don't get many takers.

[orentaub11]

if i encounter an idiom or expression i always look first in some dictionaries.only if i don't find an answer i search for people's help,of course.

i usualy encounter the expressions and idioms in articles or letters .i don't keep them so i generally cannot remember the context.

idioms have no context.in the contrary,contexts use idiom. when i find translations for chinese idoms and expressions in forums i am very benefited from it.

i really don't mind how much efforts did the questioner put in order to find out the meaning of it himself.

actualy it is not the first time i ask for translation help in chinese forums and never encountered any such complaints. i really don't understant what crime i have commited.

[liuzhou]

i really don't understant what crime i have commited.

Basic politeness would have helped for a start. You know. Like a "please" rather than what comes across as an abrupt, rude demand or a challenge.

idioms have no context

Nonsense. You said yourself you come across them in articles or letters. That is the context.

i generally cannot remember the context.

contexts use idiom

So, there is a context, after all!

[orentaub11]

don't you know that every chinese idiom is connected to a stiry and has its own meaning and way of use?

the idiom's meaning doesn't depend on the context one choses to use it.it has it's own meaning.do you realy want to say you don't know that? if you don't know that so please look in dictionaries and see the idioms meaning.they are given without any context.

i am a studend.should i teach you about chinese idioms?

all this discussion is a big wasting of time.i only need a help in understanding these idioms.if one knows so i will be happy to hear.of not so not.

[Shelley]

All you really had to do was something like this:

I came across this XXXXXXXXX in a newspaper and i have looked everywhere but can not translate this. Can anybody please help.

Nothing complicated or time consuming

Please try again, generally this forum has always been kind and tries to help.

[imron]

i don't keep them so i generally cannot remember the context.

You might not remember the context the word was used in, but you can provide context about why you want the word translated and what efforts you have made yourself already (Shelley provided an example above).

i really don't understant what crime i have commited.

南辕北辙

[orentaub11]

no problem.

[liuzhou]

the idiom's meaning doesn't depend on the context one choses to use it.it has it's own meaning.do you realy want to say you don't know that?

There is no one fixed way to translate anything.

In the case of Chinese idioms, we could translate literally. Word by word.

For example in the case of 南辕北撤, I could translate

"South shaft north tracks"

Utter gibberish. Totally useless.

Or I can expand it to "To try to go south by driving north." Slightly more meaningful, but still vague out of context.

Then there is the explanation (which is not a translation). "To do things which defeat one's purpose."

In providing an explanation, the context can be very important.

please look in dictionaries and see the idioms meaning.they are given without any context.

My dictionary of Chinese idioms does give sample contexts for many entries.

i am a studend.should i teach you about chinese idioms?

We're all students here, in one way or another. We share our knowledge. We don't demand it of others without contributing something.

[orentaub11]

i want to know the meaning of the idioms and know how to use them.every idiom has its own use.for this it is good to see example of use.

the meaning of the idiom does not depend on the way people use it. the opposite is true. what you saw in the dictionarries was example of usage to make the meaning of the idiom clearer.if i give you the context when i met the idiom maybe you will not able to give the whole meaning of the idiom,only one aspect.this is not what i excpect.i want to know in what cases is the idiom can be used.

look in the dictionary not only make the meaning and usage of the idiom clear.i was mislead by dictionaries many times.only a native chinese speaker can explain in what cases and how the idiom can be used.if you ask me about an idiom in hebrew i will explain the meaning and all the using opportunities without any extra information.simple and easy.

i hope this time i made myself clear.

[Kenny同志]

大碍使唤 doesn't make any sense.

南辕北辙：mean to go to the south but head for the north - it is almost always used figuratively meaning "do things which defeat one's purpose" .

PS: it should be 辙（zhe2), not 撤(che4)。

[liuzhou]

i hope this time i made myself clear.

As mud.

Once again you contradict yourself.

Now you tell me that you only want the dictionary definition but that the dictionaries are misleading.

the meaning of the idiom does not depend on the way people use it. the opposite is true.

So that means 'the way people use idioms does not depend on the meaning of the idiom'? What? They just throw random idioms into their conversations?

And you tell us that giving us the context (which of course, idioms don't have) would make it more difficult to tell you the meaning.

If I were you I'd concentrate more on getting characters right. Every thread you have started has contained typos. You are not going to be able to find stuff in dictionaries if you use the wrong characters. Get that right then worry about the advanced stuff.

By the way, if only a native speaker can explain the usage (which I don't believe for one second), why are you asking here?

[abcdefg]

I'm guessing that part of the original poster's problem is that his English is not very fluent and this may make him sound rude when it was not really his intention. I sometimes say things in Chinese that come across as abrupt just because I don't know a more polite way to phrase them.

Since the moderator just told me I'm all out of red negative votes for the day, I thought I'd write this comment instead. I'm trying to give the original poster the benefit of the doubt, but it's difficult.

It's as though the title of this thread should be "Translation Demands."

[Gharial]

Well, I learnt something today: that 大碍使唤 = "Doesn't make any sense". (Yup, I'm a master of "断章取义主义"!).

[orentaub11]

he poster's english is ok and her intentions are only the best. none of her posts are insulting only expressed her astonishment.

so no any bad intentions only pure wish to study more chinese.so please understand me and take it thet way.

[orentaub11]

the dictionary gives the meaning of the idiom,but you don't know the exact usage of it.sometimes there is a special nuance the dictionary cannot give but it determines the usage of it.exactly like learning slangs.by looking in the dictionary you still don't know the use of it.so only native chinese who use the i dioms and slangs in the everyday life can really explain them accurately.

i always ask these questions in forums and almost always get satisfactory replies from chinese native speakesr.to your surprise native chinese also find interest in these forums.i had never met with any problem about this.the name of the forum is "translation help",so what is more natural from asking for a translation help? i didn't see any forum rules asking for information beside asking my question.

anyway the internet is full with benefical forums where i can ask question and get help.

[Gharial]

I see you've posted the same query on several other sites, but none has yet been as helpful (and it has been helpful, despite "everything") as this site.

Anyway, I get the feeling that it's just basic examples-as-explanations that you're ultimately after. If so, how about the following, taken from nciku (which draws on the Collins Chinese dictionary):

你的行为和你的承诺南辕北辙。

Nǐ de xíngwéi hé nǐ de chéngnuò nányuán-běizhé.

Your actions are at odds with your words.

http://dictionary.re...se-english/南辕北辙

As for 大碍使唤, although 大 and 碍 seem to pair up quite often, as do 使 and 唤, the four don't appear to form a contiguous 4-character idiom even once in the Google results I've looked at, and as Kenny said, it doesn't make any sense anyhow.