What Happened to The Standard Chinese Phonology Section in Wikipedia?

[DespikableMi]

1. Look at the chart at Standard Chinese phonology (Consonants) - Link

• The IPA of t becomes t̪
  
  • Voiceless alveolar stop > Voiceless dental stop
    

  [*]The IPA of tʰ becomes t̪ʰ

  • Aspirated voiceless alveolar stop > Aspirated voiceless dental stop
    

  [*]The IPA of l becomes l̪

  • Alveolar lateral approximant > Dental lateral approximant
    

2. Compare it to the chart in Pinyin (Initials) - Link

• The IPA of the Pinyin b becomes b̥ instead of p
  
• The IPA of the Pinyin d becomes d̥ instead of t
  
• The IPA of the Pinyin g becomes g̊ instead of k
  
• The IPA of the Pinyin z becomes d̥z̥ instead of ts
  
• The IPA of the Pinyin zh becomes d̥ʂ instead of tʂ
  
• The IPA of the Pinyin j becomes d̥ɕ instead of tɕ
  

[DespikableMi]

Which one is more accurate?

[Lugubert]

I hasten to reply before somebody who knows Chinese phonetics appears.

First, the t & l business. IPA [t] is "dental or alveolar", according to my manuals. I assume that the Chinese sound is dental, and suspect that the "underbridge" was added by an American. I would from my Swedish point of view rather keep the [t] for Chinese, but add an underdash to represent the English t.

If I'm not terribly wrong, the Chinese p/b etc. phonetic distinction isn't a case of unvoiced/voiced but like in e.g. Danish, where p/b is in principle voiceless aspirated fortis/voiceless lenis: pʰ/b̥. Then b̥ etc. makes excellent sense for Chinese as well.

[Olle Linge]

Well, it is explained in the article:

In order to symbolize the unvocalized "b" sound of Taiwanese, we might use [p] according to the basic IPA chart, and to symbolize the vocalized "b" sound of Taiwanese, we might use . The unvoiced explosive or "aspirated" sound made at the same place in the mouth would then be [pʰ]. The problem for explaining pinyin notations for Mandarin is that none of these three sounds is the one it shares with English, the one that has voicing (vocalization) that begins at the same instant as the parting of the lips. For this sound we can use the symbol [b̥] which translates to "a vocalized 'b' sound that is unvocalized." Logically, that is a contradiction, but it has the advantage of suggesting that there is some element of vocalization there that is "almost taken away."

For the three bilabial sounds of pinyin, b, d, and g, we can then use the same symbolic device and write [b̥], [d̥], and [g̊]. The three strongly aspirated sounds of pinyin p, t, and k can be written [pʰ], [tʰ], and [kʰ].

However, this is the first time I see this and I have read quite a lot of books about the phonology of Standard Chinese. All sources I have at my disposal here say that these sounds are unvoiced and used [p], [t] and [k] to represent Pinyin b, d and g. There are no references included in that section on Wikipedia as far as I can see. If anyone has sources supporting this (apart from Wikipedia), I'd be interested in having a look.

[陳德聰]

While [b̥], [d̥], and [g̊] are completely ridiculous since there are already three perfectly accurate representations in [p], [t], and [k], I am interested to look further into the underbar for denti-alveolars. I guess I should familiarize myself with how wikipedia works so I can engage in whatever discussion is happening there.