Is this story likely to be true or is someone being cheated?

[lokki]

I'd appreciate some help verifying how probable the following story is likely to be, considering the circumstances existing in China in the 1970's to 90's.

This is about someone who was born as a second child in the late 1970's, when the one-child policy was being most fiercely enforced (is this right?). This was in a half-rural area in the general vicinity of Shanghai. Her mother went into hiding to keep the pregnancy secret, or she would have been forced to have an abortion, delivered the baby secretly at home and then gave her away in adoption to a family in another town a considerable distance away.

The new family registered her as a stray baby off the street that they had decided to adopt and take into their care. According to her, cases like this were not uncommon in China at the time. There is also a "brother" in this foster family, not adopted I think, and I'm not sure which of them was first. Would this have clashed with the one-child policy?

She was registered and raised as a member of the other family under their name, but little by little started discovering her real background and established contact with her biological parents and elder sister. At some point between 15 and 20 years of age they were able to arrange the paperwork and have her registered under her original family name and move back to live with them.

I was told by somebody from another part of China (Sichuan) that this story is 100 per cent BS due, among other things, to birth certificates and other paper trails not adding up. According to her this sort of thing just didn't happen. However this person is very young, in her 20s, quite opinionated about things in general, and I suspect her information about conditions in China at the time might be rather patchy and perhaps influenced by the beliefs she was brought up to have about her country.

Facts I know: The two of them being sisters is beyond doubt as far as I am concerned as I have met the sister and there is a clear similarity. I have also seen old family photographs from around the time (I guess) when they were changing the paperwork. She is fluent in her hometown dialect (a small one - the foster family is not likely to have been close enough to speak it) and uses it to communicate with her family.

So what do you all say. How likely is this to be true?

[lordnikon]

not likely at all. First forced abortion are almost unheard of in shanghai. Forced abortions happen in backwater rural areas where no one will notice and there is no one the girl can go to for help. if she speaks the local dialect but here foster family does not then it make almost no sense, how did she learn to speak the dialect? only someone who is raised in a household that speaks a dialect full time will end up learning it. It is already common for shanghai kids to not learn shanghai dialect because there parents dont speak it 100% of the time at home. Family registration aka hukou also does not work the way you talk about in the story. There would have to be a paper trail either showing that the baby was either the biological child of the foster couple or adoption papers. Children are kidnapped and raised in foster families all the time in china, many parents are desperate to have a son, the authorities would never allow someone to register a "stray baby". If the scenario really happend then she would have absolutely no paperwork and no hukou because the authorities would never allow her to be registered. She is just making up some story to get attention

[imron]

The late '70's and early 80's was a completely different time compared to now.

I think the general story is possible. I've known people who were the product of secret pregnancies and would have been aborted if the pregnancy had been discovered (this would have been late '80s - though not in Shanghai). They weren't given away, but the family was fined basically all of their possesions of worth at the time. A book I'm reading at the moment (《蛙》by 莫言) also takes this part of Chinese history as one of its central themes, and it mentions similar sorts of situations. Although the book is fiction, and has some implausible aspects to it, I have no reason to doubt the general background and description of that time period.

So, I would say the story you've been told is not impossible. Whether I'd believe it or not comes down to whether the person telling you the story is trying to sell you something because of it, or if they're just mentioning it as "here's an interesting fact about my life".

[liuzhou]

in the late 1970's, when the one-child policy was being most fiercely enforced (is this right?)

No.

The one child policy was introduced in 1978, but only applied to births from 1979 on. The idea that it was being fiercely enforced in the late 70's just isn't true. The 70s were over before it kicked in . Forced abortions and the more fierce effects of the policy came later.

birth certificates and other paper trails not adding up.

I'm fairly sure China doesn't have "birth certificates" as such. None of my friends or wives have one! An entry in a hukou perhaps. That's all. Maybe that's the "paper trail", although hukou can be easily altered.

[civic94]

I believe its true. my uncle had her second daughter, and my uncle and aunt (in the 80's) left home for quite a few months and gave birth to my cousin, and then came back.

and ive also heard stories from another aunt that she knows a family who has 8 daughters, all were born from the 80's and 90's. they wanted a son badly, so each time they were pregnant they skipped town. the babies? they gave it to their relatives in a city, and slowly the kids reappear in the village after all the heat is gone or dying down.

and i know a friend who has 2 siblings, they are born after 1980, each time a kid came the parents also skipped town.

[WestTexas]

I think the story sounds pretty reasonable. One of my friends, his ex-girlfriend was somewhat like this. She was born in about 1990. Her parents already had two kids. They were worried about the fine if they had one more. So after her mother gave birth, the girl's father took her (the infant) and gave her to her grandparents secretly. The grandparents told the authorities they found a baby in the road. After a few years and some bribes, the girl was 'adopted' by her real parents and her registration was changed to say she was their child. Or something like that.

This is about someone who was born as a second child in the late 1970's, when the one-child policy was being most fiercely enforced

I've heard pretty much the opposite, that it wasn't really enforced until the 80s or later in more remote areas. And I don't mean rural villages - it isn't even fully enforced in those places now - I mean third-tier cities and such. For example, I met a girl from Qiqihar, born in 86, and she had four sisters. I asked her how she could have four and she said it was because Qiqihar is so remote.

[liuzhou]

I believe its true. my uncle had her second daughter, and my uncle and aunt (in the 80's)

One of my friends, his ex-girlfriend was somewhat like this. She was born in about 1990.

I don't think there is any doubt it could be true in the 1980s and 1990s, but the OP said it happened in the 1970s which is highly unlikely for the reasons give above.

[gato]

See this from Wikipedia. The one-child policy didn't start until 1979, and in the beginning it was implemented more by giving families with only one child extra benefits than penalizing those with more than one.

http://en.wikipedia...._and_background

The one child policy had been planned as early as 1977, although it was not mandated nationwide until 1979.

But what is her motivation for lying about this? If this woman was born in the late 1970s, she would be in her mid-30s. What does she stand to gain by making up this story? Is she selling the movie rights to her story? Seems quite odd.

[Flying Pigeon]

"None of my friends or wives have one!"

@ liuzhou, how many wives do you have? Is polygamy legal in China? ; )

[liuzhou]

Is polygamy legal in China?

Everything is legal in China; everything is illegal.

It depends on the mood of the local cops. So I married one of them, too.

[lokki]

Thanks everyone for all the input. As the exact year is apparently an issue, I guess I'll have to add that she was born in early 1979.

But what is her motivation for lying about this? If this woman was born in the late 1970s, she would be in her mid-30s. What does she stand to gain by making up this story? Is she selling the movie rights to her story? Seems quite odd.

This is a very good question Gato. I have been wondering about this too. It's very hard to see what she can hope to gain by making this up. Unless it's just to win the sympathy and pity of others for having had a hard life. It seems pretty extreme for that though, and she doesn't go around telling everyone this story, it's sort of private, and I am one of the few who have been told.

She also put up a convincing (at least to me) show of bereavement when word reached her that her "other mother" had died.

I am wondering could she have been given away in adoption for other reasons, say economic or family conflicts or complications (afaiu there have been quite a few conflicts in the family) or something, and be confused about the real reason herself. By the time she was growing up and was old enough to start thinking and wondering about these things the one-child policy was in full swing and a fact of life and it would have seemed natural for her to assume this was the reason. Maybe it was convenient for the adults too to let her believe this.

PS. Oh, and thanks civic94 and WestTexas for contributing similar cases. To me it at least shows that the story cannot be dismissed as impossible due to paper trail issues alone, as was the firm belief of the other Chinese friend I mentioned. She was clearly wrong about this point.

[crazy-meiguoren]

If it's true, yet happened before forced abortions took place, the family may have done this more out of fear of forced abortion. Rumors tend to run wild, especially when a new policy is adopted that alters the core of the family.

I know only one person who was affected by the one child policy. This happened in the 90s, apparently past the time when forced abortions were at their peak. She was punished by having to work without pay. She now lives in the US with a new husband, so no one from the PRC is going to bother her anytime soon.