Learning proper pronunciation as a beginner (self-taught)

[otacon]

Hello! I want to learn chinese using the Heisig method for fun and am going to order RTH shortly. But while reading through some of the posts in this (great) forum, I came to the conclusion, that it would be better to start with internalizing the correct pronunciation of the pinyin before anything else. So, while following one of the links, I stumbled upon this Pinyin Pro Software and I like the idea of this app quite a lot, but the site looks kinda shady. Has anybody tried it and can you recommend it? Or, if not, could you point me to some good books, or something, that I can use to learn the proper pronunciation?

Many thanks

[dona]

Someone in this forum recommended a useful tool to practice pin yin before. I tried and it's really good: http://www.cslpod.com/LearnChinese/Resource/Pronunciation.aspx

Hope it helps.

[Steingletscher]

The Sounds of Chinese - It's a really good book, though it should be used alongside a native speaker with not much of an accent (the CD that came with mine was unusable, so I'm not sure don't plan on depending on it before you know if it is or not). In addition to learning how to read pinyin, it also serves as an introduction to basic phonetics and the IPA.

[abcdefg]

I came to the conclusion, that it would be better to start with internalizing the correct pronunciation of the pinyin before anything else.

That makes sense. But learning the rules of Pinyin pronunciation is not enough. You need to have a source of proper pronunciation to imitate, over and over. Best if that source can correct your mistakes, because they are sometimes hard to hear yourself.

Not sure if learning good pronunciation from scratch is a project that really lends itself to self-teaching. I kind of doubt it.

[otacon]

Thanks all! Yes, I do not aim perfection, I just want to get at a level, where the average chinese can understand me if I ask for directions etc, since I'm not planning on visiting china in the near future, but if I do, I want to be able to pick it up rather quickly. I just want to avoid interalizing the wrong pronunciation. I discovered the FSI course and think I'm gonna master that before moving on to the Heisig.

Just one more question: is it feasible for me to get my listening skills to a level where I can understand classic shaw brother movies and the like and if so, how long would that take me if I study an half to an hour each day? Cheers

[abcdefg]

...is it feasible for me to get my listening skills to a level where I can understand classic shaw brother movies and the like and if so, how long would that take me if I study an half to an hour each day?

Probably 5 to 7 years. Maybe longer. Different people acquire such skills at different speeds (I'm one of the slow ones.)

[otacon]

Thanks, I'm one of the slow ones myself ;)

[moonlight]

For the very beginning, you can use a free online pinyin table to go through it and click on each syllables in that table to give your self a rough idea about the sound of Chinese (yellow bridge website has a complete table there). Eventually you'll need to pronounce about 370 compound syllables, but that's a very small number compared to English.

Then you can follow a good set of text book and cd to get the ground work done on your pronunciation. For any tough sound and tones, it is better to get help from a face to face session, either from a personal tutor, or community school.

However, you really don't need to wait till you've finished your pinyin study then move on with characters. I'd suggest to parallel both learning paths to keep yourself motivated. Solely study on pronunciation everyday is very boring.

My two cents...

[Mactuary]

If you're anything like 90% of all the learners of Chinese (from my observation), you'd better start listening before any encounter with written pinyin. This is just so you don't get confused with the voiced stop consonants, eg b, d, g, j etc, which don't exist in Mandarin. It annoys the heck out me when I hear people pronounce these incorrectly, but maybe native speakers are more forgiving. There are also problems with the vowels as well, i.e. i, u.

My theory is that their reading part of the brain takes over when they are pronouncing these sounds, if the reader doesn't already know, or is not sure, how a letter should sound the natural instinct is to pronounce in their mother tongue, or whatever is most predominant in their brain, e.g. Koreans pronounce r as the trilled r. This is because most of them know some English, hence have already learned the latin alphabet, and the Korean letter that is transliterated to r is ㄹ, which is sometimes pronounced as the trilled r.

If one just listens without visual interference, then there's no way they could mistake a Chinese b with the Engilsh b. Once the learner is totally convinced that there are no such sounds as the voice stop consonants, then they would know that the b, d, g, j etc are just visual representations, and are chosen for convenience.

But the rest of the 10% listen more carefully and don't let their reading part of the brain, so to speak, take over. Decide quickly which one you are.