What would be the perfect city?

[yangliuping]

Hi all,

This forum has been very helpful so far and I am looking for specific advice on where to live in China for a semester, I'm moving in 3 months, but I'm not sure where to. Apologies if this is overly redundant (I know there are a ton of these posts).

What I would like from a city:

- good nightlife (I'm 21 and I would like to go out 3 or 4 times a week to get drunk and party with other young people)

- decent air quality (I have a lung condition which bad pollution aggravates)

- not too many expats and friendly locals (I lived in Singapore for a semester and spent most of my time with other Americans/Europeans and would like to avoid this)

- affordable (I will be studying/living on a university campus)

Does such a city exist? I have recently been considering Kunming which seems to fit most of my criteria, but it seems the nightlife may be lacking? Is this true? Once again, any recommendations or insight would be extremely helpful.

Thank you

[imron]

Does such a city exist?

Not really and your requirements are basically contradictory. You want somewhere with not many expats, but you want a type of nightlife that will only exist in a place where there are many expats and describe a lifestyle likely to attract more expat friends than local Chinese friends.

[yangliuping]

Thank you for the response, I suppose such a city would be too good to be true and it is unrealistic to find a great club scene with few foreigners. Do you know of any cities than would meet most of these requirements? Would you recommend Kunming?

[count_zero]

Qingdao might be worth considering as the locals' penchant for beer leads to something of a bar culture.

Also, sea breezes can help whisk away noxious air pollution.

[liuzhou]

not too many expats and friendly locals

What's wrong with friendly locals and why would you not want any?

But generally, what imron said. Contradictory.

[edelweis]

- good nightlife (I'm 21 and I would like to go out 3 or 4 times a week to get drunk and party with other young people)

See there and there. If you must get drunk, let it be with friends whom you can trust to take care of you until you're safely back in bed.

- decent air quality (I have a lung condition which bad pollution aggravates)

Won't cigarette smoke aggravate it too? China does not have many (any?) smoke-free businesses.

BLCU has a reputation for being a party university, but of course it does not match your other criteria.

[liuzhou]

China does not have many (any?) smoke-free businesses.

In recent years I've seen more and more. Also noticed a huge reduction in the smoking populace at work. 15 years ago, 99% of the men (including me ) would smoke through meetings and banquets. Now they don't. I gave up 10 years ago. The few who still smoke tend to go outside. Both of them.

I was in a restaurant just last week where one idiot man was literally thrown out for insisting on smoking despite being told several times that it had a "no smoking' policy. That couldn't have happened 10-15 years ago.

Still a very long way to go, but I have seen encouraging signs.

[yangliuping]

Quote

not too many expats and friendly locals

What's wrong with friendly locals and why would you not want any?

But generally, what imron said. Contradictory.

Sorry if I was unclear, I meant not too many expats along with friendly locals. I feel like I've described a dream space which now seems completely unrealistic in China. Does anyone know of a city with decent air quality and a fun nightlife? That seems more than adequate now.

Thanks so much for the responses, they have been very informative

[imron]

Does anyone know of a city with decent air quality and a fun nightlife?

Once again, probably contradictory requirements depending on your definition of fun nightlife. Typically speaking, bigger cities (Beijing, Shanghai etc) will have a nightlife similar to what you might be able to find/expect in the west, but by their nature will also have worse air quality.

There are plenty of threads discussing smaller cities such as Kunming, Qingdao and so on, so it might be worth doing a search through them to see what others say about the cities in terms of pollution, nightlife and so on.

[putonghua73]

Once again, probably contradictory requirements depending on your definition of fun nightlife. Typically speaking, bigger cities (Beijing, Shanghai etc) will have a nightlife similar to what you might be able to find/expect in the west, but by their nature will also have worse air quality.

There are plenty of threads discussing smaller cities such as Kunming, Qingdao and so on, so it might be worth doing a search through them to see what others say about the cities in terms of pollution, nightlife and so on.

Imron pretty much hit the nail on the head. Whilst I haven't been to either Beijing or Shanghai (biggest city I visited is Shenzhen - good night-life but god-awful city), I can speak with a degree of confidence on the night-life - as well as other aspects - in Kunming.

As Imron stated, if night-life is your biggest priority then the big cities e.g Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, et al, will be your best bet. Given your lung condition, I suggest that you either try a mid-tier city and adjust your expectations in terms of night-life or try Taipei.

Kunming ticks all of your conditions - except night-life. There was a fantastic thread (which I can't find - even after using the 'search' functon. Bah) posted on Asian night-life, what to expect, how to meet women, yada yada yada, but I cannot find it. It boils down to the vast majority of Chinese clubs are opulent affairs, filled with square tables where the vast majority of people will hang around in groups, drinking, smoking, and trying to be heard over the over-bearingly loud (and appalling) music. The dance floor is a laughable affair consisting of a small, sqaure that has a couple of people dancing. The clubs will do nothing for your lung condition!

The music is appalling, as I commented on Kundu (Kunming's night-club area), and the drinks are expensive because clubs are based upon the group i.e. Chinese do not go with just 2 people. However, once you've been around a while, you'll get to know the ways and means of doing things - such as most clubs run tabs. So whilst you may initially baulk at the thought of buying 24 bottles of beer between you and a wing-man, you can actually run a tab and leave any un-opened bottles at the bar, and you will receive a ticket with the number of bottles you are entitled to the next time you visit. Since you'll be going 3-4 times a week, then buying 24 bottles isn't really an issue.

The Chinese you will meet in night-clubs are not the type of Chinese you will meet at University Campuses. These are mostly moneyed Chinese, or rather their parents are extremely wealthy. Your local Chinese friends will typically prefer to go to dinner, drink at a bar, or usually head out together to KTV.

I personally think that Taipei is your best bet. But if you are prepared to adjust your expectations in terms of Chinese night-life, then maybe a mid-tier city would be better.

Couple of other observations:

• you will be partying with mostly other foreigners or 'rich kids'. Your local Chinese friends will a) not have the money to be drinking 3/4 times a week, b) not have the interest, and c) will either be studying or working
  
• If you are foreign, white and young, then you'll experience the 'Charisma Man' syndrome. In fact, just being foreign is enough - being white and young, makes it easier
  
• It's easy to avoid the ex-pat scene - but the answer is one that most people do not wish to hear i.e. it's all down to you
  

[imron]

There was a fantastic thread (which I can't find - even after using the 'search' functon. Bah) posted on Asian night-life, what to expect, how to meet women, yada yada yada, but I cannot find it.

Possibly this one, or this one.

[abcdefg]

- good nightlife (I'm 21 and I would like to go out 3 or 4 times a week to get drunk and party with other young people)

- decent air quality (I have a lung condition which bad pollution aggravates)

Kunming has good air, relatively speaking. Plus I'm sure you can find some place to get drunk 3 or 4 times a week. Bars, however, tend to be smoky.

Putonghua73 knows much more about the night life here than I do, and I would defer to his opinions, as posted in #10 above. From my (minimal) experience, Kundu is a great place to listen to Lady Gaga played extremely loud.

[putonghua73]

Yet again, Imron, you deliver! Shanghaikai provided a night-life 101 in those threads, as well as a primer on relationships that judging by a few recent threads, is still pertinent advice that ought to be heeded.

If the OP wants a night-life experience similar to the ones described in those threads, then Kunming will not provide that. It is a lot more tame based upon my experience back in 2010.

Edited October 22, 2012 at 10:02 AM by putonghua73

[yangliuping]

Thank you for the valuable insight putonghua and abcdefg, I obviously need to adjust my expectations. Taipei seems really cool but I fear it will cost much more and be more difficult to enroll in courses so late. A "lower-tier" Chinese city seems like the way to go, but it's obvious that it will not have the same nightlife Shanghai does. Does anyone have any experience with Hangzhou? Also, what exactly is the "charisma man" syndrome? A loud foreigner

Thanks again!

[putonghua73]

Charisma Man

It was originally based on Western guys in 80s Japan, but has a lot of relevance in China now. More so, somewhere like Kunming, as opposed to Shenzhen. Random girls asking to take your picture with them, got old real fast.

If I were in your position, I'd draw up a list of your criteria and rank them in order of importance. It is crucial that you categorise your criteria by determining which ones are non-negotiable i.e. must be met. You can use a simple negotiating framework LIM: like, intend and must.

Draw up 3 columns on a sheet of paper, and label the columns. Add the criteria to the 'Like' column that represent the best outcome. Then add the criteria to the 'Must' column that you absolutely cannot compromise on. These are the fundamental criteria that would cause you to rule out a city if not met. Then add the criteria to the 'Intend' column. This column represents the criteria that you are prepared to compromise on - in other words, your bargaining chips.

You'll need to play around and adjust the criteria in the 'Like' and 'Intend' columns to explore your options.

Sadly, a lot of this information is highly subjective, and there isn't a nice algorithm that will spit out answers based upon your criteria. It's more to get you thinking about establishing baselines to evaluate a series of cities.

Have you considered choosing a second tier city, and maybe visiting a bigger city with international night-life at the weekend? Admittedly, the travel and accommodation costs could get expensive?

As others have stated in this thread, read up on mid-tier cities, see which ones interest you based upon your criteria, then check out the expat forums for those citites to get a feel for whether the city will meet your criteria.

Good to see that you are adjusting your expectations, as an idiom comes to mind: 鱼和熊掌，不可兼得 (you can't have everything). Or, as the Fox said in the 'Little Prince', "Nothing is perfect".

P.s. Once you do make a decision, update the thread with your experiences - especially as I have retired my inner John Belushi. Just don't go serenading me with 'Louie Louie' ;)

[icebear]

In the mainland I'd lean towards Qingdao. Enjoyed it a lot myself for a few days, few friends that lived there did as well for a year or two, and I think it ticks most of your boxes. Nightlife may not be exactly what you're looking for, but it does have a lot of drinkers and some variety.

[OneEye]

Taipei seems really cool but I fear it will cost much more and be more difficult to enroll in courses so late.

You can enroll pretty much right up until the term starts at most schools here. Some will even let you start late. Get in touch with the school and find out what they're willing to do for you.

Taipei can be expensive, but it can also be very cheap. It just depends on how you live. If you apply for and get the MOE scholarship and you'll have a lot more leeway.

[yangliuping]

Thanks all for the advice, I had no idea what the term "charisma man" was but I have actually had similar experiences in Vietnam. I took what putonghua suggested and I have decided on Hangzhou, a city which seems to check many of the items on my list (not too polluted, decent nightlife, less expats than Shanghai or Beijing, affordable) and is close to Shanghai if I ever feel overly bored. I will definitely check in to describe my experiences and drunken exploits and hopefully help others in a similar predicament. Also putonghua, one should never retire their inner Belushi!

[jkhsu]

Hangzhou gets really humid in the summertime, more so than Shanghai. This may or may not affect your lung condition (you'll know better than me). But then again, if you're only there for the Spring semester, that might not matter. It's also not much cheaper than Shanghai or Beijing. If you're going to be taking (and paying) the bullet train to shanghai more than once a week, you might as well live in the outskirts of Shanghai where the air is a bit better.

Don't get me wrong though. Hangzhou is a beautiful city and I enjoy it every time I go there, but the humidity really got to me the last couple of times I went there (and I was there during October). However, if you're used to the weather in places like Taipei or Hong Kong, then Hangzhou won't be a problem.

One of the reasons others have mentioned Qingdao or Kunming is because those cities have decent air quality (and weather), compared to many other cities in China.

[Lauria]

Harbin is one of the cheapest big cities in China. Food, rent and entertainment costs are usually one-half to one-third of China’s coastal regions.