Renting in Guangzhou with two dogs

[eion_padraig]

It doesn't look like this part of the website gets much traffic, but hopefully someone might be able to help me.

So it looks like my wife and I might be offered long term jobs in Guangzhou this next fall, which we're thinking about taking. We won't go if we can't take our dogs. I've been re-searching importation and registration issues in GZ. I've found quite a lot of information here; http://english.gz.gov.cn/publicfiles//business/htmlfiles/gzgoven/s9600/201106/830111.html . It strikes me as official a source I'm going to get.

Anyway, my work would be in Luogang (箩岗) district, which has certain areas that have "strict administration" where you can't register two dogs per household, but the whole district isn't "strict" like Tianhe (天河), Haizhu (海株), and Yuexiu (越秀). I'm wondering if anyone has two dogs legally registered and rents in Luogang? Or perhaps you know someone personally who does?

I'm trying to get some information from my potential employer, but it has been slow going. I've also contacted friends of friends, but haven't heard back yet. The next step I'm going to try is contacting a real estate agent who might know if there are rentals where landlords would approve two medium sized dogs (both about 42 lbs). My Chinese is a bit rusty so I'm hoping to find a real estate agent with decent English I could email. Suggestions on that end?

Thanks.

Eion

[abcdefg]

We won't go if we can't take our dogs.

This does not bode well. Especially since the two dogs are not small.

[PengHaoShi]

To find an English speaking agent in Guangzhou is not a big deal, the big real estate companies have offices there (e.g. Joanna RE, Fullhome, ...) and their agents speak English. My experience, however, is that they drive the rent up for foreigners and the agent often expects a kickback from the landlord (my experience after 10 years in China and renting in total 5 apartments: 20 - 40%). They also show only the high-prize apartments, where foreigners live, they don't show you the local ones. When I look now for an apartment, I go into the area, where I want to live and look around for the small local agents, you might have to take a local Chinese with you for the negotiation.

The same apartment, which I rented in a few month ago in Beijing, only 2 floors up, was offered to a colleague of my wife by these "international" agents at a rent 40% above what I am paying.

For import procedures, I would ask a forwarding company. The procedures differ in China from entry place to entry place. Some custom authorities are more stricter than others. It also depends on the negotiation skill of the forwarding company. However, I have no experience with live animals, only with forestry products, but whenever we have a question, we ask our forwarder in the entry port and let them handle the process.

[imron]

Don't forget it's not just bringing the dogs in, taking them back to your own country may also have quarantine issues, so make sure to check up on that also.

[eion_padraig]

I'm pretty comfortable with the regulations regarding importing and exporting our dogs. PHS, I found the same thing when I lived in Shanghai many years ago. I found two apartments in Shanghai much cheaper on my own through English speaking real estate agents. There were still people trying to charged me outrageous amounts as it was,

My main concern now is being able to legally register my dogs. It' proving more difficult than I had hoped to find a place where I can definitely do this. But hey, that's China for you. I emailed a few real estate agents I found online, but not surprisingly they want to talk about places in Tianhe and Haizhu. I know that is where the majority of foreigners live, but I don't want to be worried about a random crack down happening and my dogs being confiscated if I can avoid it.

[eion_padraig]

So we made it with our two dogs to Guangzhou. We found a place that would rent to us with the dogs several months back with the help of people from my new job. It's in an outer district (Luogang), which probably made it easier and I figure we're paying somewhat above market rate for our place. It's an area where a new subway station is supposed to be finished within the next 1 1/2 years. I'd say our apartment really should rent for more like 6500 RMB/month rather than the 8500 RMB/month we're paying, but with my work it's not a big issue. The additional cost is likely to be more to do with me being a foreigner, than the dogs.

Anyway, we didn't pay a company to import our dogs to China, but it still cost us a fair bit. The tickets for the flight ended up being about US$1,200 per dog. It would have been more, but we were able to fit each dog into a crate that was less than 90 inches total (width + height + length) and both were under 70 lbs total. We landed in Guangzhou directly. We had rabies certificates, the USDA forms filled out by a USDA certified veterinarian and then stamped by a USDA office both done within 10 days of arriving in China. When we landed in Guangzhou, we showed the documentation to an official at the Guangzhou airport. She had us fill in a sheet or two for both dogs. The forms were written in Chinese. I struggled to read it a bit, but between talking with the woman and a Chinese American guy who was also importing a dog, I was able to fill out the form. I really should have had my pocket dictionary or an electronic dictionary loaded onto a working smartphone.

It's been a few days since we arrived here. The dogs seem to have adjusted fine, though they seem to be experiencing what I think could be called jet lag too.

We still need to register the dogs, but I think we do that after the 30 day home quarantine period is over. I think we may be in an area where technically you can only register 1 dog per household, but I've been reassured by several folks that there is a work around with that as well.

Again, the rules for quarantine are different for other Chinese cities. I've heard that Shanghai has you have the dogs or cats in their shelter for quarantine for 7 days. I have heard that in Beijing you have to have the dogs or cats in a government quarantine for 30 days.

From my recent experience, I'd say if you have advanced elementary/intermediate Chinese, there probably isn't a need to hire a company to assist with bringing dogs or cats into China if you are good at following through multiple steps. The timing of the health check up in the United States with a USDA certified vet and getting it signed off at a USDA office is a bit challenging because the check up and the verification needs to be done within 10 days or your arrival in China. The form needs to be completely filled out by the vet or there can be problems. The vet we took our dogs to made a small error on the form that almost meant the USDA office wouldn't sign off. Supposedly the vet had been completing these forms for a number of pets going to Europe.

Hopefully another person will find this post helpful.

[imron]

Thanks for the follow up.

[abcdefg]

Glad it worked out. Wouldn't be surprised if the dogs help you or your wife meet locals when you take them for walks. They are great as "ice breakers" in most places.

Are the dogs young enough and clever enough that you could make them bilingual by teaching them a few basic commands in Chinese? That would impress your Chinese friends.

[eion_padraig]

I don't know if they'd take commands in Chinese. I could try. For now, I'm making sure they're good about sitting and waiting as we get on and off the elevator.

We met a young Chinese fellow with a 6 month old lab the other day as he was walking it. We asked if we could say hello to his dog, and both he and his dog was happy to let us pet the dog.

I was actually trying to figure out how to warn people in Chinese that our dogs may jump up on people when they go to pet them. We're hoping to break them of that habit, but usually we just to have to hold them down by the leash. I know how to say they're friendly and that they like people.

[abcdefg]

I was actually trying to figure out how to warn people in Chinese that our dogs may jump up on people when they go to pet them.

I don't know how to say that either.

[roddy]

扑人 can be used. Or 挑起?

[abcdefg]

淘气 sounds more appropriate in this case than 挑起。 Dogs who jump up on people really need training, in my opinion. It's always been high on my list of "don't do" dog behaviors. (Muddy paws are not welcome.)

How old are these two unruly beasts? What kind of dogs are they? Large or small? What breed?

[eion_padraig]

@abcdefg Agreed. I blame my wife for that behavior. She allows them to do it with her as she'll then grab their front paws and hold them in a standing kind of position. Then she gets irritated when they behave poorly when people come to the door. When they were younger and did that to me, I gave them a good knock with my knee in their chests a handful of times so they don't do it with me. I tried to have friends of ours who came to the house to do it too, but they thought it cruel. They also tend to be barkers when people come to the door. We didn't curb that when they were young because we lived in a crappy neighborhood and I traveled a lot. The people who showed up at our door were usually not people we wanted around and the dogs' barking discouraged them.

Both unruly beasts are mixed breeds. One probably has a bit of German Shepard and the other some hound. Both are a little over 40 lbs and about 22 - 23 inches at the top of their shoulders when standing on four paws. Again, by Chinese standards they're large. They're both around 9 years of age. We adopted both of them from rescues who had found them loose, so their age is estimated. The shepard mix was still growing and filling out a bit when we first adopted her, so we're more confident of her age. They'll probably spend the rest of their days in China because we don't want to put them through another flight like that again as they get older. We'll wait to they pass before we make another big international move.

I think tao2 qi4 would work well. Thanks.

[abcdefg]

It's hard to teach old dogs new tricks. I should know because I'm an old dog and my new trick is learning Chinese.