Driving in China

[banjo67xxx]

From what I saw most of the taxis were stick shifts.

But I seriously suggest you learn to drive stick in the US or UK first, then work your way up by learning how to cope with insane Italians before driving with suicidal Chinese!

E.g. In the US I've never seen anyone drive or cycle the wrong way on a one-way street. In the UK cyclists frequently cycle the wrong way on one-way streets. In Spain, Italy and Portugal cyclists, mopeds and motorcylces always drive the wrong way on one-way streets. In China the cars drive on the wrong side of the median as well, and there's pedestrians, cyclists, mopeds, motorcylces, them 3-wheel things, cars, and buses ignoring every single highway rule, and narrowly avoiding collisions approximately every 20ft they drive (in Shanghai, a near miss every 100ft in Jinan).

And, if you're involved in an accident with a pedestrian, you must may compensation even if its NOT your fault, and double the compensation if it is.

I've driven in Portugal, Spain and Italy before and so I'm prepared to take the chance driving in a small city like Jinan, but even I wouldn't drive in Shanghai or Beijing.

[roddy]

And, if you're involved in an accident with a pedestrian, you must may compensation even if its NOT your fault, and double the compensation if it is.

I doubt (although I'm open to being told I'm wrong) that there's any 'pay double if at fault' rule, but the way compensation is decided can be particularly bizarre, and is more about 'who can pay', rather than 'who should pay'. Story a friend told me (which I assume is true): Her dad was driving around China somewhere on holiday. Middle of nowhere the car breaks down, and parts need to be delivered and it'll take a week or something. He comes to a deal with the garage whereby he'll just continue his journey by train / bus, and when the car is fixed one of the garage employees will drive the car home. All well and good. Until the guy entrusted to drive the car back gets drunk and knocks someone over on the way, putting them in hospital. Daddy gets a phone call telling him he should head out to wherever to sort stuff out, which he assumes means getting his car back. Which he does - as soon as he pays 50% of the hospital bill. The police had decided that a) the guy driving the car doesn't have any money, so obviously, he's not liable, and B) at the time he was jointly employed by the owner and the garage who do have money. Simple.

[flameproof]

Stick

I prefer manual cars. Latest one is automatic, which is of course really good for women and old people. But it makes the car responding very slow. Last time I borrowed a Porsche, with automatic, not really exciting to drive. After that I had an manual Audi A4, Diesel - much better response. And then the Diesel typical very high power at low RPM. GREAT!!

Italy

Well, I drove in (North) Italy and had no problem. I found it very normal and civilized.

liability

Roddy, I am not surprised at all. If the same happen in Hong Kong, same happens to the owner. It's the owner you pays damage or fines. He is then free to claim from the driver in court.

[gougou]

Latest one is automatic, which is of course really good for women

So we have chosen against political correctness today, huh?

[flameproof]

gougou

well, it starts with that it's hard to find a manual car in Hong Kong. It's almost all automatic. Sometimes the higher end sports cars are manual. Audi TT, the top end Ford Focus i.e. So it's not my free choice.

[gougou]

gougou

well, it starts with that it's hard to find a manual car in Hong Kong. It's almost all automatic. Sometimes the higher end sports cars are manual. Audi TT, the top end Ford Focus i.e. So it's not my free choice.

Huh? It's not so much the automatic part that I was getting at...

[Lindsay]

Latest one is automatic, which is of course really good for women

I also saw this and

women can darn well drive sticks, quite dexterously if judging by watching my own mother. going by your logic, all women should just be pent up in their cabin cooking on a wood burning stove.

[flameproof]

by your logic, all women should just be pent up in their cabin cooking on a wood burning stove.

Absolutely not true!

Gas or electric ovens are perfectly suited too!

PS: My mothers also can drive both well. But she thinks that I don't know how to drive automatic.

[banjo67xxx]

I doubt (although I'm open to being told I'm wrong) that there's any 'pay double if at fault' rule,

I'm not sure if its exactly double, but certainly there is a large element of punitive compensation added.

The police had decided that a) the guy driving the car doesn't have any money, so obviously, he's not liable, and B) at the time he was jointly employed by the owner and the garage who do have money.

My wife confirms that the driver of the vehicle and the owner of the vehicle share liability, as you are responsible for whoever you let drive your car.

Well, I drove in (North) Italy and had no problem. I found it very normal and civilized.

Verona wasn't too bad, but Firenzia (Florence) was very hectic. I bet you the Italians you saw didn't stick to 55mph though (or should I say within 10% of the speed limit like they do in the US)

PS: What's the English name for the 3 wheel mini pickup truck things. I know the Chinese name sounds like san-le-sha?

[gougou]

I know the Chinese name sounds like san-le-sha?

Chinese is [pop=tricycle/sānlúnchē]三轮车[/pop].

[banjo67xxx]

Thanks. I tried putting 三轮车 into babelfish, but it translates it as tricycle. However, in English the word tricycle commonly refers to pedal powered vehicles.

Does anyone know if there is an English word for 三轮车 which specifically describes the petrol powered vehicle?

[flameproof]

However, in English the word tricycle commonly refers to pedal powered vehicles.

No, it can mean either, pedal or petrol powered.

[banjo67xxx]

However, in English the word tricycle commonly refers to pedal powered vehicles.

No, it can mean either, pedal or petrol powered.

Er-hmmm ... I said commonly not only.

tri·cy·cle

1. n. a vehicle, esp. one for children, having one large front wheel and two small rear wheels, propelled by foot pedals.

2. n. a velocipede with three wheels propelled by pedals or hand levers.

3. n. a three-wheeled motorcycle.

three-wheel·er

n. A vehicle having three wheels, as a small, all-terrain motor vehicle.

jin·rik·sha

n. A small, two-wheeled carriage drawn by one or two persons

None of these words convey the meaning of a 2-stroke petrol powered 3 wheel van commonly with an open bed at the rear for carrying goods.

Is there an English word for specifically for this? or am I flogging a dead horse on this one?

[Rincewind]

Although tricycle is correct, if it is motorised then the work 'trike' would be more accurate. Similar to the usage of bicycle and bike. However, if the vehicle is enclosed and/or has steering via a wheel rather than handle bars, then it would be (rather unimaginatively) a three wheeled car/van/truck. The three wheelers used to be common in the UK with vehicles such as Scammell Scarab http://www.3wheelers.com/scammell.html , but they never got a special name.

Advancing on the driving licence theme: I'd like to be able to drive around near where I am during the May holidays. I was loaned a car last year at this time and drove (illegally) without any problems with traffic. Where I live isn't anything like as busy as Beijing and Shanghai. What are the options for getting a rental car? Can anyone give estimated costs of renting a car for a week or a month?

Also, what licence is required for a motorbike. A bike might be more useful for the small roads I want to explore. However, I have only a UK car licence, no bike licence. And again, is is possible to rent a bike?

[banjo67xxx]

What are the options for getting a rental car? Can anyone give estimated costs of renting a car for a week or a month?

After discussing this at length with my wife, there are 3 options ...

1) Try to rent a car. There aren't any recognised reputable rental car companies in China like Avis or Hertz (as until 2007 its not been possible for foreigners to get a temporary license). The companies that will rent you a car will charge you a very high deposit, and then will quite probably try every trick in the book not to return it.

2) Borrow a car off a good friend. This will involve a few meals/beers/money whatever, and every time your friend wants to use his own car you'll be at their beck-and-call. Depending on the friend this might not be so bad. (With my Sister-in-law's personality its not worth the hassle)

3) See if you can buy a cheap car outright. However, there is no second hand car market in China as the Chinese tend to keep their cars until they fall to pieces. So you'll only be able to buy a really trashy car.

Hope this helps.

[cdn_in_bj]

1) Try to rent a car. There aren't any recognised reputable rental car companies in China like Avis or Hertz (as until 2007 its not been possible for foreigners to get a temporary license).

Depending on where you are there will be local franchised rental places along with the single store operations. It's best to talk to the locals and find out which places are reputable.

If you are looking to rent over the May holidays, I think you will have a hard time finding a car from a rental company this close to the holidays. An alternative to consider is that some driver tutoring companies will rent out their cars over the holidays to make some extra money (since their instructors will not be working during this time).

Keep in mind that unlike in some western countries, car rental places here do not change their cars every year. The rental price will depend on the make and age of the car, as well as what kind of transmission it has. Costs will vary by city too, but I'd expect you can find a decent car for 200-300 RMB/day. You can get a better rate if you rent by the half or whole month.

Also, if you plan to drive out of the local area, make sure you check this with the company and that they've left the proper insurance papers in the car.

The companies that will rent you a car will charge you a very high deposit,

This is standard practise, even when renting to locals. The deposit is used to cover damage to the car or traffic fines incurred by the renter. They'll return your deposit (or whatever is left after taking off any fines) a week or so after you return the car. Here in Beijing, 5000 RMB is the standard deposit amount, although with the right amount of guanxi you can get this waved, along with a discounted rate.

and then will quite probably try every trick in the book not to return it.

I highly doubt this, and I have not heard stories to support this. Although I do not know any other westerners who have tried renting a car here. In my experience, they returned my deposit when promised and even had someone deliver it in person to my workplace. Remember if a business makes its money by ripping off its customers, it won't stay in business for long, even in China.

2) Borrow a car off a good friend. This will involve a few meals/beers/money whatever, and every time your friend wants to use his own car you'll be at their beck-and-call. Depending on the friend this might not be so bad. (With my Sister-in-law's personality its not worth the hassle)

This is a good option, but there is also the strain to your relationship which may result if the car were to get damaged while in your possession. Although getting car repairs done here is very cheap by western standards.

3) See if you can buy a cheap car outright. However, there is no second hand car market in China as the Chinese tend to keep their cars until they fall to pieces. So you'll only be able to buy a really trashy car.

At least here in Beijing there are several used car plazas with a good selection of cars only 2 or 3 years old. The really trashy cars do not make it to these plazas. And I've also seen many interesting second-hand foreign models which you would not be able to buy new here or have a hard time importing yourself. However, the used-car market here is still in its infancy and as such the pricing is not inline with what you'd be used to in the west. Also, from what I can determine demand currently outstrips supply, and these factors all help to keep the price of used cars relatively high compared to what they'd cost new.

That all said, I do not recommend buying a used car here as mileage fraud is rampant and "buyer beware" very much applies. Even the new car dealerships get burned sometimes when they take in a real lemon on trade.

In closing, I would not recommend tourists here to attempt to drive. It'll most likely be a very stressful not to mention dangerous experience, as the "rules" of the road are quite different here. And you'll have to deal with the traffic and hassle of finding parking and haggling over rates, etc. You'll just end up wasting time and possibly making your vacation less enjoyable. There are better ways to get around the city as a tourist.

[banjo67xxx]

Here in Beijing, 5000 RMB is the standard deposit amount, although with the right amount of guanxi you can get this waved, along with a discounted rate.

and then will quite probably try every trick in the book not to return it.

I highly doubt this, and I have not heard stories to support this. Although I do not know any other westerners who have tried renting a car here. In my experience, they returned my deposit when promised and even had someone deliver it in person to my workplace. Remember if a business makes its money by ripping off its customers, it won't stay in business for long, even in China.

Thanks for an alternative view. I did think my wife was being a bit pessimistic.

I would not recommend tourists here to attempt to drive. It'll most likely be a very stressful not to mention dangerous experience, as the "rules" of the road are quite different here.

I agree entirely, for the average tourist. Its best to let a taxi driver deal with the chaos and for the more nervous types wear a blind-fold and/or take some valium.

[mrtoga]

There are a bunch of laowai driving their own cars around Dalian. Personally I think it is quite dangerous, as they can't read a lot of the signs for a start!

The licence is a doddle. You just go into the test (which is in Chinese) with an interpreter and the interpreter tells you which answer to circle. Takes about 20 minutes and costs 800 RMB apparently.

As for the driving itself, well I would buy a big car and invest in a permanently recording camera so when someone does crash into you there is some evidence that it was not your fault - otherwise you can bet your bottom dollar it will be!

[joeMAS]

really so annoying living in china.. can anyone helping me! how to get driving license in China, Shandong, Jinan. i have all the document e.g Valid marriage visa, international driving license frm my city, and 1 driving license at my country.. Pls brother and sisters who willing to help me.. :oops: