why are farmers in china looked down upon?

[civic94]

I Just so happened to chat with my friend from china, and he said that in china farmers are the lowest class, people look down at them, and rich folks really treat poor folks bad.

we met at a university in washington state, I'm an ABC. anyways I told him that most ABC's in america, their parents were farmers from guangdong/fujian province, and the latest flush of chinese coming to america have higher degrees in better jobs.

I told him in america, a farmer is not really looked down upon, ususally they have a big land and have machines to do the work. and w/o farmers, how can city people eat?

why are farmers looked down upon? my parents were also farmers, they told me stories of not having enough to eat, and once you plant the crop and veggies came out, they sold it for money instead of eating it because they are poor. I mean, is it really that funny to look down at someone?

I have talked to my family about visiting china, they told me to not go to the cities, and go to the village, that way I can see how people live if I was not here.

[imron]

Bear in mind, that when a Chinese person says farmer, they don't necessarily mean farmer in the English sense, rather they mean someone who lives in/comes from a rural area (e.g. not a city). Such a person may or may not do any actual farming.

[skylee]

and he said that in china farmers are the lowest class

Lower than beggars and prostitutes? (Oh but I suppose they don't exist officially.)

[fanglu]

I thought farmers (along with their allies the workers) were the highest status class in China, given their role leading the nation to socialism.

[gougou]

I thought farmers (along with their allies the workers) were the highest status class in China, given their role leading the nation to socialism.

That was a long time ago. Now, to get rich is glorious.

[Guest realmayo]

Yeah but some people have to get rich before others. So kudos to the 'farmers' for being prepared to wait!

[大肚男]

I've always thought, from city dwellers attitude, that farmers in China enjoy a similar social status as illegal farm workers in the US.

[WestTexas]

A lot of it has to do with the farmers' poverty. Many Chinese look down on poor people. On top of that, they are seen in the same way as we would see hicks/rednecks/hillbillies etc., ie, they are ignorant, rude, uneducated, etc.

[count_zero]

Yes, it's the trifecta of having low economic status, low education and low culture (though this last one is debatable because Chinese folk culture is quite interesting and it's not as if most Chinese city dwellers are much better than hicks).

I once read an interview by a guy who worked to help rural and migrant workers with their legal rights. At one point he sighed and admitted the people he helped could be very "naive". I read another article about how sorting imported trash is a popular job in one rural province because the rural workers believe that foreigners often throw away huge piles of cash with their rubbish. I read another article about whole small towns who obsess over the Hong Kong lottery looking for clues in the media for the winning numbers. They believe the whole thing is prearranged with subtle signals sent via TV and radio for those in the know.

In my gym recently was a Chinese guy who'd been out working with the nongmin for some reason. He was recounting tales of what these "shabi" people did and was cracking up gleefully. I know a Chinese journalist who specialises in law and human rights. I was talking to her about a huge spice market nearby but she said she didn't go there because it was full of migrant workers. She'd happily write an article defending their civil rights but go near them? No thanks.

In some of the poorer Chinese provinces, the rural population has so little protein that they are considerably shorter than urban dwellers. Millions of rural Chinese have so little iodine in their diet that they are quite literally retarded (anti-Japan protests anyone?). Though government-run newspapers report the opposite, some sources claim that illiteracy is actually on the rise in China.

Every country has some kind of class system. In America, it's based completely on money. In England it's more about education and manners. In China it's about this yawning gap in everything from appearance and health to prospects to education to civil rights (don't really have time to touch on this). Still, at least they have more social mobility than in India!

[drencrom]

Just think of how Western countries look down on their rural residents. It's the same thing. People with no culture, no love of learning, no arts, no famous people stopping by for a lecture. There is no end to the negative aspects of these people. Sure, once in a while they may produce a great person, but that's like the flower that grew out of the pot of dirt. Just think of an overall-wearing, bucktoothed white person from Arkansas and do the mental substitution in your head.

[civic94]

Just think of an overall-wearing, bucktoothed white person from Arkansas and do the mental substitution in your head.

true, but I can see that person in america can have a full high school education, and get finaincial aid and go to college and try to better themselves, even if they owe student loans, they still dont have to pay a penny until they graduate.

while in china, I heard many stories from my mom that people there dont have money for school. none of my uncles even have a high school diploma. at least in america, a person who wants to try can get help, while in china if you dont have money, your screwed.

I once read an interview by a guy who worked to help rural and migrant workers with their legal rights. At one point he sighed and admitted the people he helped could be very "naive".

I guess i can relate to that. i remember when I was in china at age 10, most of the folks in the village didnt have table manners, and spitted all over the place. and oh yea, every other word coming of their mouth was the F word. but still, they are really hard working people.

[WestTexas]

Just think of how Western countries look down on their rural residents. It's the same thing. People with no culture, no love of learning, no arts, no famous people stopping by for a lecture.

I don't think it's that comparable. There are rich, well-educated people in the US who live in the countryside by choice. In China, there aren't as far as I know. I'm from a rural area in Texas and I talk with a strong accent. For the most part, people I meet from other parts of the US aren't weird about it and many women actually find it charming. There is a certain romanticism about cowboys and about rugged, strong country men in general. There is no romanticism about Chinese farmers. Chinese women are not oohing and aahing about how strong/rugged the farm workers and sheep herders are and how sexy their country accent is.

Sure there are some people in the US who don't like country folk, but I don't think the prejudice is as strong or as widespread as it is in China.

[liuzhou]

I don't think you can sensibly compare Chinese and American farmers.

Many (most?) Chinese peasants are subsistence farmers. That means they only produce what they eat themselves. There is no profit. No money.

Can you really say that about American farmers?

Whatever, it is no reason to look down on them, but that is what happens - since times long lost. "The poor are scum." All the way from pre-Roman times up to today's latest newspaper.

[langxia]

Well in a lot of European countrys the word farmer is an insult. So it's not only in China that people look down on farmers.

[Scoobyqueen]

The agricultural sector in China is not looked down upon. Quite the contrary. Every one at every societal level knows agriculture is important. Actually to an extent that is surprising. All the papers frequently report on the agricultural stock levels (which is something you do not see in many other countries) and the harvest levels are always reported too. It is possibly that the small farmer of some 5 亩 is looked down upon, but they are hardly real farmers, just basically people with a large back gardens. The farmers in China are not allowed much land, the largest allowed to a family being something like 2 ha. Tiny!

On a side issue, China should worry that they will not have enough farmers in the next generation. The children of farmers tend not to want to take on the farm and that would be a problem. China is busy buying up land in South America, in Brazil in particular, in order to secure food supply. With the weather creating havoc with harvests, not just in China but in the US too, this is a real issue. A growing population and less arable land should make farming more attractive. Hence we shall probably see a change of attitude to 农民 shorly :-)

[liuzhou]

The agricultural sector in China is not looked down upon. Quite the contrary.

And Santa Claus is the Tooth Fairy in disguise.

All the papers frequently report on the agricultural stock levels (which is something you do not see in many other countries) and the harvest levels are always reported too

And everyone knows it is bullshit. Has been since Mao's time. Report low harvests and get bust. Report high harvests and get promoted. No one ever checks if they are true. And in the meantime the peasants are still watering their whatevers,

[Scoobyqueen]

@ Langxia

Well in a lot of European countrys the word farmer is an insult

The current trend is to use "business farmers" or "farm managers" to promote the role of farming. In Germany "landwirt" rather than "Bauer" :-)

And Santa Claus is the Tooth Fairy in disguise

Liuzhou - I dont understand your sarcasm here. Are you from the agri-sector? I am. And I am always surprised at the importance Chinese people place on this sector. I observe this also in Ukraine and Russia. These people seem to have a thorough knowledge of the sector and know its importance. I could not say the same about people in the UK or Germany. They know very little about how important agriculture is despite of this being the case. I am talking about Joe Public here.

And everyone knows it is bullshit. Has been since Mao's time. Report low harvests and get bust. Report high harvests and get promoted.

I do not agree. iAs an example, I remember a very bleak prospect at the start of 2010 where the budget had to increased by 20 percent and sowing had to be done in green houses because it was so cold in Heilongjiang. It is simply not true that only the good things are promoted. Whilst I do not believe all of the figures, I do believe China knows well the problem of having hungry people and this is a way of assuring them and "maintain social stability". On that note, I am surprised thought that western papers offer so few column spaces on this issue as there is defacit between consumption and stock levels. Why keep quiet about this? Prices of food will most definitely rise as a result.

[civic94]

The agricultural sector in China is not looked down upon. Quite the contrary.

it was quite straight forward when my friend told me farmers were the lowest class, and what my parents told me that they would never go back to farming.

[edelweis]

The agricultural sector can be highly valued politically, while the farmers/country people themselves are not highly valued by the rest of the population. There is no actual contradiction here.

I was under the impression that country dwellers are prevented from settling into cities, is it, or was it, true?

[imron]

I think edelweis has hit the nail on the head. The agricultural sector is highly valued, but people (especially those from the cities) have a disdain for folk who are from rural areas for reasons cited above.

Calling all such people 'farmers' is often inaccurate (though it is correct in some cases) and is one of those examples of incorrect English usage by native Chinese that has been popularised and is very common. Although I dislike using it, a more appropriate term in many instances might be 'peasant'. Western countries don't really have a peasant class any more, so using this word can seem a bit strange, however in China the peasant class is still very much around.

it was quite straight forward when my friend told me farmers were the lowest class, and what my parents told me that they would never go back to farming.

Swap the word 'farmer' with 'peasant' and it's not difficult to understand why. Who would want to be a peasant or go back to being a peasant if they have managed to escape that life.