Full immersion vs. English as language of instruction

[Stefani]

Dajia hao,

I would like to get your advice and opinion regarding the best class for me and my son. He is 9 years old and at the moment attending a Mandarin after school care and a week-end Chinese school. For both schools the teachers speak Mandarin, so full immersion method.

For the week-end school, he attends it with me. I am very much a beginner, and I am finding that it is difficult to understand and follow the teacher. My listening skills and vocabulary is just not up to that yet.

I am trying to figure out what is the best type of classroom for both of us. Should we go to a class where the language of instruction is English instead of Mandarin? At what level would we be able to follow a full immersion class?

Duo xie.

[imron]

At what level would we be able to follow a full immersion class?

Does your son have any problems with full-immersion? I imagine it would probably be better for him to do this, so the question then becomes do you both need to be in the same class?

[Meng Lelan]

I observed the first year classes at Middlebury just this summer and I saw beginners go from zero to basic competency in nine weeks, but they started out with some English allowed, then about week four or so they all shifted to 99% Chinese. So immersion can and does work from beginning level onward, but many teachers outside Middlebury don't have the training, time, and resources to effectively implement immersion from the beginning level onward. The immersion teachers at the adult level have to really understand how to do immersion.

If your child is happy with the immersion class I would just let him go there and be happy there. If you are wanting to learn Chinese too then I would suggest you go to the kind of class that makes you comfortable.

[Stefani]

Does your son have any problems with full-immersion? I imagine it would probably be better for him to do this, so the question then becomes do you both need to be in the same class?

For the week-end school:

I think he tends to daydream and to be distracted more in the full-immersion class. Last semester we had a teacher who tries to use a lot of Mandarin, but still explain things and use English (more so than this semester's teacher). Today the teacher asked him a question: "What did you do for your parents this past week?" and he was answering "Computer engineers". He thought the question was: "What do you parents do?". For me, I am finding it more difficult to actually understand the class, and I spend a lot of time outside of class translating the words / lessons.

For the after-school care:

He said that he is having a hard time. That is reflected in the grades he is getting. We don't have other options (besides not going to a Chinese after-school care) due to our house location.

I am not sure what to do with the after-school care, as I don't know of any other options currently. The week-end school though we have several options and I would like to investigate that for next semester.

observed the first year classes at Middlebury just this summer and I saw beginners go from zero to basic competency in nine weeks, but they started out with some English allowed, then about week four or so they all shifted to 99% Chinese.

Wow, that is amazing Meng Lelan. I have been reading about Middlebury, and I do wish I could go there! The reason I go to class with him is to make sure that he pays attention in class and for me to understand the homework better. Without me there, I have a hard time helping him with homework (considering that he reads better than I do). When I go to class with him and do homework with him, he understands the material better and he is more willing to do the homework.

[joshuawbb]

This is only my own, non-scientific opinion, but personally I believe full immersion isn't always the best choice when the learner is studying at a beginner level (referring to learners in general, not particularly your son who's probably well into elementary). Given that young children are more suited to absorbing languages in such a way it does have its merits, but it's not for everyone in my opinion.

There seems to be some stigma against learning a language at the basic level while having one's mothertongue as the instruction language. Right at the beginning you have very little knowledge if any at all of the target language, and if it does have advantages in surrounding the learner in said language, it does so at the expense of comprehension/learning speed.

Unless the learner already has a decent ground in the language basics, it's not easy to communicate grammar structures or particular nuances of the language when you're doing so only in that language. It can take considerably longer for the learner to fully grasp, and in my opinion though examples can illustrate the use, they can't always explain the logic behind them.

Take 把 for example in Chinese grammar. I first learned how to use It through New Practical Chinese Reader's full-English grammar explanations, which some say are tedious, but they go well into the logic behind it as well as its subtle differences in meaning against other similar methods of expression. For a beginner who up to such a point might be enjoying the simplicity of Chinese grammer, 把 can be a bit of a curve-ball, but after reading through the grammar explanation once, I fully understood it and did not need to refer to it again, only taking a moment to think back when I used it or saw it used.

In the classroom, our teacher was using full immersion by that point and went through great pains trying to explain it in Chinese in a way that could be easily grasped by us, and it took several examples, questions and revision lessons to get everyone used to using it.

This is only one example and there's plenty more to each argument, but as for the above example it might have taken little more than a lesson or two to understand the particle if the students could examine it through their own language. For all this trouble there's sometimes a considerable trade-off in progress.

[abcdefg]

The immersion teachers at the adult level have to really understand how to do immersion.

I've had several one-to-one classes in which the bilingual native Chinese teacher was all too ready and eager to switch to English to explain new terms or grammar points. At beginner level this was usually helpful, but as time went on it was not. I had to frequently (tactfully) remind the teacher to please use Chinese to explain things I didn't understand.

It was a particularly significant problem when the teacher's English was not as good as he or she thought it was, because then the switch into English caused even more confusion. This was especially true with abstract notions; it was less of a problem when just translating concrete nouns or simple verbs.

My best teachers seemed to have a high ability to use vocabulary and concepts I already knew to guide me along as I tackled new material. After weeks or months of working together, they had an excellent idea of how to employ appropriate stepping stones and building blocks. Less skilled teachers would try to use something else I didn't know to clarify the task at hand and that was not effective.

(I realize this isn't entirely germane to the original poster's situation and it gets into some of the differences between taking a class and hiring a tutor. Apologies for straying from her question. )

[Stefani]

My best teachers seemed to have a high ability to use vocabulary and concepts I already knew to guide me along as I tackled new material. After weeks or months of working together, they had an excellent idea of how to employ appropriate stepping stones and building blocks. Less skilled teachers would try to use something else I didn't know to clarify the task at hand and that was not effective.

I think this is the essence of what is needed for full-immersion. For me at the moment I don't have enough stepping stones and building blocks yet.

Thank you all for the replies and do keep them coming :-)

[abcdefg]

For me at the moment I don't have enough stepping stones and building blocks yet.

I understand. Good to keep it a comfortable process for both you and your son. I think it's great that you are taking such an active part in his education.