Z visas and refusal

[joshuawbb]

I've done quite a lot of looking-into regarding this topic, but there are some things I don't yet fully understand about the process for getting a Z visa; perhaps someone can help open my eyes a bit more? A bit of background first I'm afraid.

I've been studying at Xiamen University since 2009 on residence permits from X visas, studying a BA degree, and will graduate next year. In the middle of this is the relationship between my Chinese girlfriend and I, whom I've been together with since before I came to China and then met up with here in Xiamen. The issue of what happens after I graduate has always been key; my plan is to find work here in China for at least a year while we plan our next steps, and regarding getting a Z visa I'm already entirely clear about the requirements and application. As it stands, we both endeavour to try the best we can to make everything work out as it's not financially feasible to immediately bring my girlfriend to the UK.

Anyway, upon graduation we both plan to go job-hunting in Shenzhen since her Hukou belongs there and we both feel Xiamen is becoming more financially stressful every year for young graduates. I only have a few points to ask:

- I'm clear on the requirement for post-graduate work experience, so I suppose I can't be certain how likely a Z visa application may be. This aside, in case of a refusal for a non-malicious reason such as lack of work experience, from where does the refusal actually come? Does it come from the Chinese embassy in one's own home country after initial application? Or is a refusal also possible by the city's PSB, during residence permit application after entering China on said Z visa, resulting in cancellation and an exit visa?

- If one were to be refused for the above reason by either the embassy or PSB, do you think it would still be worth trying again, say with a different company/application, or do you think the chances are up with said city's PSB, etc?

On everything else, I suppose I'm already clear. Many, many thanks everyone for all your support ever since the first day I thought about coming to China I'll see how things go come graduation.

[roddy]

I think the refusal wouldn't be from the embassy or the PSB, it would be earlier than that: when your company tries to get you an official invitation letter. That comes from the Foreign Experts' Bureau or the ...watchamacallem... employment authorities or something? Once you've got the invitation letter I think you're good to go, the embassy doesn't ask to see your CV or anything, and the PSB is I think unlikely to give you any trouble if you've actually got the invitation letter from another bit of government.

Thanks for keeping us updated on your progress through China!

[imron]

I'm clear on the requirement for post-graduate work experience, so I suppose I can't be certain how likely a Z visa application may be.

You might also be able to look at 'internships' which would probably happen on an F-visa and allow you to gain work experience that way. Being in Shenzhen, would certainly make visa-runs to HK very easy :-)

Anyway, I'm not sure what sort of work you will be looking for, but if you're a white, native English speaker, many schools trying to hire native English speakers as teachers will look the other way regarding work-experience and even fudge the visa application on your behalf (probably without you even knowing about it).

In the middle of this is the relationship between my Chinese girlfriend and I, whom I've been together with since before I came to China and then met up with here in Xiamen.

Not meaning to pry, but didn't you guys break up, and what happened to the girl from the rural village?

[Tianjin42]

Joshua,

I will try to assist – I often help a Chinese friend who has a recruitment company that helps foreigners find work so we monitor the visa situation where possible.

I can only really confirm what has already been said though you may also want to have a search around the site as there are other nuggets of useful visa information dotted around.

Regarding Z-visa refusal, Roddy is correct – the judgement is made at the point the company/ school requests the invitation letter. It is very uncommon for a brand new graduate to secure a Z-visa and the companies know this (this has been the official line for sometime though it seems to have been better enforced of late). Loosely speaking it seems like there is a type of points system, for example if you have a recognised teaching certificate that does work in your favour but if you a just graduated that does not (incidentally, we have encountered a few people who have secured a Z-visa without a degree – strictly speaking not legal without a special permission). The employers know what is and what is not possible with the candidate, though inevitably there are employers who do considerably better than others – presumably they know the right people.

So in relation to your question I think that the employers would know if they could hire you on a Z-visa though it would be unlikely for someone in your position. It would be worth checking with different employers because some evidently can get around things. If you get the invitation letter then you are good to go.

I presume you are aware that officially you would need to return home to secure a valid Z-visa (legally it must be secured in your home country unless you are transferring and the former employer provide a permission letter). However once again it seems there are agencies that can sort this having met individuals who have secured a brand new Z-visa in Hong Kong and also in the mainland itself.

As Imron suggests, teaching might be the best bet to get you started at least but you’d do well to get online (or better still go there) and check on what the options are on the ground (other expats, local schools/ businesses). If you can teach then some school would be able to sort out something whether it be an F-visa or whatever. This would at least buy you some time.

Good Luck!

"Not meaning to pry, but didn't you guys break up, and what happened to the girl from the rural village? "

Ha ha, Imron are you keeping tabs on him? Sounds like a soap opera.

[imron]

Ha ha, Imron are you keeping tabs on him? Sounds like a soap opera.

Not tabs as such, but members who have been round long enough will have seen him go from being completely green to China and planning out his future study plans there and then watched as he's slowly brought those plans to fruition over the course of 3-4 years. Some of us have also been offering advice at various stages of the journey and watched as he's acted on that or not, and then come back to the forums sharing what he's learnt. As roddy mentioned above, it's been interesting reading his updates throughout the years, and I'm sure I'm not the only person curious about the answer - enquiring minds want to know

[joshuawbb]

Many thanks everyone, that certainly clears things up - so it's the Foreign Experts' Bureau or equivalent authorities that make the decision after all. Chances aside, that makes things easier to plan out should I succeed in getting the letter.

As for internships, that seems a good backup plan should it be impossible to obtain the working visa, though I would have to sustain myself in China too. My degree has a compulsory two week internship credit which I will be doing during next January's winter holidays, so that'll be a start. It was originally to be done during this year's summer holiday however due to various issues the plan fell through and I had to defer the internship. If it may help with a future Z visa application, I'll be looking around for opportunities to take internships during term breaks, etc, if I have the time.

Thanks Tianjin42 for that very detailed description of the process, that was all very eye-opening. Indeed it doesn't look likely that a company in international trade (part of my degree's focus) would be able to obtain a visa, so in an optimistic scenario perhaps I'll be able to obtain a visa for English teaching if a school happened to have leeway with the authorities. We'll see when it comes to it. Someone I knew last year from the UK came to China and managed to obtain a Z visa for working at an English training centre, fresh after graduation and without declaring any work experience himself. The school was one of those among Meten and Web International though, so perhaps their wealth gives them some leeway with the authorities, or maybe they just cooked up the application - last time I heard he was teaching there until earlier this year, but this time on a tourist visa. I didn't ask him so I'll never know, but perhaps the second time around the application didn't go as well. Either way I wouldn't go working on a tourist visa myself.

Yes, I'm aware I must go home for the visa application to the embassy so a bit of financial planning will probably be in order next summer should things go well and I'm flying back and forth. It would probably be all done back in the UK anyway since it would be a good opportunity to see my family again and be home for a while.

Many thanks once again to you and everyone.

Not meaning to pry, but didn't you guys break up, and what happened to the girl from the rural village?

No need to worry, I'm happy to talk about it. Yes, we did break up back in 2010, deciding that it was probably best not to set ourselves up for disappointment if we were unable to be together in the same country after I graduate. Later in winter I befriended another girl (mentioned by imron) and during Spring Festival 2011 she took me to visit her hometown and spend the new year there - as hard to believe as it may be, this was only a visit out of friendship. Later that winter we did get together for some time, but decided that we didn't really suit each other and broke up amiably last summer.where

I had always been on good terms still with my previous girlfriend, and I suppose you could say we drifted naturally back together during autumn last year. The issue of not knowing how things will be after I graduate is still there and won't change, but we've both accepted that and have agreed to try our best to make things work out. In the end there isn't much more we can do about that, but we've come quite a long way and my girlfriend also has a close relationship with my family and friends back in the UK too, especially with my parents. We even managed to bring her with me to visit the UK earlier this January. It would be a shame not to try and make things work since we've worked hard.

Relationships, eh?

[imron]

As for internships, that seems a good backup plan should it be impossible to obtain the working visa, though I would have to sustain myself in China too

Paid internships do exist, and although the pay wouldn't be great, it would allow you to cover your living costs and probably a little bit more.

Glad to hear things are working out on the relationship front.

[roddy]

You might not have to go back to the UK - it may be possible to handle everything here or in Hong Kong. However it's probably best to budget for the "worst" (my apologies to your parents) case scenario of taking a trip home.

Thanks for the latest episode of the soap opera - I know Imron's been dying to know.

[abcdefg]

As roddy mentioned above, it's been interesting reading his updates throughout the years, and I'm sure I'm not the only person curious about the answer - enquiring minds want to know

There are lots of Joshuawbb fans out there (or out here) who have followed his progress with admiration. I count myself among them and wish him well in future undertakings.

[Cat Jones]

Having flown back to the UK to get my Z visa, I just heard that a Danish guy on another forum just got his Z visa in HK. He just had to fill in some additional forms.

I don't know if the ability to do this varies by nationality as so many things seem to in the business of Chinese visas.

[BenGodward]

Joashuawbb, I'm literally in almost the exact same position as you, I'm from the UK, like yourself and recently did a years internship in Zhejiang for a year from mid 2011, to mid 2012. I, also like yourself met a girl and am now looking at all the possibilities as to how I could spend some more time in China until we get to the next step in out relationship.

I would really appreciate it if you emailed me on bengodward27@gmail.com or just private messaged me on this site giving me any advice and guidance as to ideas on how I could make something happen, so far I've looked at doing not a degree, but lectures resulting in some sort of certificate of recognition at a university in hangzhou, zhejiang, this would buy me a years education in China teaching me more of the language and also something to show for it afterwards and more importantly that year to plan things out with my girlfriend, it's just trying to get the money to do the year university out there now which is going to cost me roughly £6,000 - £7,000 including all costs such as flights, lectures, living etc... And so i'm stuck in a boring retail job to get together the money to go back, I haven't seen her in over 7 months already, although I would like to go out there for a holiday before I start uni it's such a long time, and even when I do finally manage to get to uni out there, I'm not 100% sure on where we would go from after that.

So yeah I guess if anybody here has any advice for me, then please, message me, I need help haha.

Thanks